Free blue badge hospital parking in doubt

KxMx

My opinion is never popular with drivers but our household has never had a car (not enough money) and always had to manage without.  It can be done and is done by a lot more households than just us. 

Both household members have long term illnesses/disability, one works ft, frequent medical appointments (including a few too many early morning A&E trips just recently), an elderly relative living just 20 mins away but poor public transport there. 

Managing has included moving to a town with more frequent buses. When we moved we chose an area where there was one direct bus route and two nearby. It would have been super unlikely for all routes to be cancelled and one is sponsored by a supermarket. Managing has also included limiting work search to bus route areas. Keeping a healthy emergency taxi fund despite being a low income household. 

Having a car enables choice. When you don't have that choice you make decisions based on need. I would dearly love to return to rural living but it is just not practical or possible, I have to instead make do with a suburb which does have lots of green! For a carless household rural living is usually a want/ luxury and not a need. 

Of course a household living in the middle of nowhere, no buses and working a typical hours is going to say they couldn't manage without a car. They couldn't maintain their current lifestyle without one. That car has enabled every one of those choices. But there are households like mine who never had that enabling factor and manage simply because they have to.

BTW it's been very difficult during the pandemic, real worry over access to food at the beginning, no test when one was needed (postal kit never arrived), being stuck within a 6 street radius (for exercise) for months. But we have survived. 

Muttleythefrog

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Muttleythefrog said:

Pok3mon said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Okay, I'll bite.

Pok3mon said:

Just because you have a blue badge doesn't make you poor. It is about priority parking not the cost.

Many disabled people are chronically ill (including with multiple illnesses) and need more frequent hospital appointments. Why should they have to pay to park far more often than their able-bodied, healthy/healthier counterparts, as if being ill and disabled wasn't already expensive enough?
This is only a half argument though, because people needing frequent appointments but who aren't disabled by their illness (or not disabled enough to be eligible for a Blue Badge) obviously should not have to pay the full extortionate charge each time either. The whole system of expensive hospital parking is just awful anyway and seriously needs to be replaced with something much more equitable.

Nannytone said:

I've never understood why people expect disabled parking to be free

If disabled people can't use public transport (which would be free or at least greatly reduced with a disabled pass, because walking or cycling is not an option for them either) why should they have to pay the same as everyone else to park when they had *no choice* but to use their car, and they may well take longer to do whatever it is they're there for as well so end up having to pay even more for parking? (Generally speaking here, not necessarily hospitals - but the point about the car not being a choice is still relevant to hospitals.)
Btw some counties give an extra hour or two free instead of completely free parking, based on the second part of that - usually in places where public transport is widely lacking and using the car is the only option for most people.

However if pip is claimed is this not what it is for, to cover extra costs of being disabled? Especially the mobility part. 

Well... PIP is a gesture to the idea there are often extra costs associated with disability... a literal compensation to match the reality is distant and possibly unaffordable which is why in practice disabled people rely on things like free care provided by relatives. Similarly Carer's Allowance.. for simple calculation... about £70 a week (it's less).. for minimum 35 hours caring... less than £2 per hour... in reality for many probably less than £1 per hour... doesn't reflect the true cost of providing care.

Bottom line - PIP in no way is specifically considering the costs associated with hospital parking which disabled people may find on average a greater hit to their family/personal income. Worth adding - patient transport service (PTS) may be good option for many depending on circumstances and is free. My own personal view is private vehicles are a luxury not a basic requirement (except in some extreme cases of people living in the middle of nowhere to which supermarkets won't deliver and telecoms absent) and that as a society we should be discouraging their use including with parking fees for all in all settings including employment (e.g. hospital car parks).

Well, we live near two inaccessible train stations on a main commuter line which runs through London, near a motorway junction, yet for transport purposes we live in the middle of nowhere....

To fair degree the above poster covers what I would say. Obviously there should be improvement Re: rail station access and bus links. But I do think there is a bit of chicken and egg about it all regarding where people live and services available. Of course people's circumstances can change (and the services!) and dramatically to change these assessments.

I'm conscious that I'm planning (seems to be going on for too many years now!) to move to a rural part of the country... a village location. We are a car-less household... and in visits to that county where people frequently say you need a car I can only disagree. I think you need a car if you choose to live in a place where you'll need a car... but even in the small village we have in mind.. it is on the mainline.. it has poor but sufficient bus services for leisure, personal and shopping needs. People are so used to using a car that like their right arm they can't imagine how they could cope without it - my wife is a good example.. she's been a driver for decades but when she moved to the UK she had no car and now she has no valid (full) licence here yet and she expresses how trapped she feels (due to lack of car)... yet this house was deliberately chosen due to its excessively good light rail and bus links... it is the suburbs but the public transport options are impressive only 1 minute walk away... there's a train about every 4 minutes to the nearby cities and towns.

Not everyone I accept has the luxury of being able to stick a pin in the map and plan to move there... but I do think we need to move back from the culture of treating the car as a basic feature of life for all sorts of reasons including so we can start taking back control of villages and cities for people making them far more pleasant and accessible for disabled people rather than governed by cars. If I had a pound for every time on social media I see vehicles implicated in the problems people who are disabled or parents face in getting about. So I must admit when it comes to parking fees I'm not a great advocate for anyone..lol.. and I do wonder if things like the motability scheme just encourage some disabled people to be reliant on cars to live and enjoy life. New features of life have made things like shopping and work easier without private transport.

On personal note.. I can now get a blue badge... but I can't get a disabled bus pass....this is a shame because I doubt the former will ever be of use yet the latter could form a crucial part of improving my health and reducing disability... and of course make hospital visits in theory free!

Teapot55

@Muttleythefrog That’s really bad, that you’d qualify for a blue badge, but not a disabled bus pass! Without you revealing personal details, what’s the difference in the criteria?

Muttleythefrog

Teapot55 said:

@Muttleythefrog That’s really bad, that you’d qualify for a blue badge, but not a disabled bus pass! Without you revealing personal details, what’s the difference in the criteria?

They've recently introduced additional automatic qualification for blue badge to those who get the 10 point scoring descriptor in PIP mobility activity 1 "e. Cannot undertake any journey because it would cause overwhelming psychological distress to the claimant."

Don't meet any criteria for disabled bus pass except perhaps on the 'would be refused a driving licence' but bizarrely my GP disagrees and thinks I'm safe to drive which I would struggle to imagine any other GP would agree with (and I'll probably test that idea when I move - not by driving I should add!) If I were to qualify for bus pass (where I currently live) I'd be able to get concessions for the light rail system 1 minute from my door... offering potentially experimental attempts to go out without incurring the huge costs of buying expensive tickets in advance... such that I could reach a position of not fitting the criteria for the above PIP descriptor and regain some life outdoors. 

Spoonie_Turtle

@KxMx I do see your point, and on the whole I would tend to agree with you. For us though, this genuinely was the only suitable Housing Association house offered when we needed to move when my brother was born, so we have pretty much always been stuck reliant on cars. I am the only disabled one now so no concessions for anyone else on public transport (except the train with my railcard - if it were accessible, of course) and at the time we moved I was only a child. I suppose now it might be somewhat of a choice not to move but we would have zero priority for being rehoused and for several reasons would it would most likely be detrimental if we tried to.

@unforeseen yes I would class that as more frequent, if they were all appointments. The only schemes I know of for the couple of hospitals nearest us are that if you're visiting an inpatient on more than a certain number of days in a row you can pay for something like the equivalent of 4 days' parking but get a ticket that will cover a week (something like that, I forget the details). I think there's also a scheme for people having chemo, reduced rates for parking. But nothing for anyone else who has to attend frequently (unless they have a BB), which I do think is unfair.

@Muttleythefrog that's a shame. With our council having a Blue Badge automatically entitles you to a bus pass - but interestingly enough, for our neighbouring council it doesn't. It seems most councils do as a concession, but the actual DfT categories for a bus pass don't include it. Interesting (and annoying, to know if you lived somewhere else you could have one).

KxMx

@Spoonie_Turtle There is always the option to do a mutual exchange, this is what we did from a HA in rural area to a Council property within the town.

We did go from a semi detached, fully carpeted house with a lovely back garden to mid terrace, part carpeted with mainly patio out back, so it was a compromise, did gain a second toilet though!
Upon viewing it definitely felt right and we did need to move There are lots of green areas and very, very tall mature trees just outside our gate which helps make up for having a yard rather than a garden. 

pogofish

Isn’t most hospital parking now the territory of private operators?

So the Blue Badge doesn’t even apply. It is the Equality Act that matters and that covers all suitably disabled people, regardless of any badge.

Also, the reason many people assume Blue Badge parking is free is because some large local authorities chose to make it so for legally regulated/on-street parking in their areas.

The Blue Badge legislation however made no requirement for charging either way and left that entirely up to the local authorities who operated the scheme. The only stipulation was that if any charge was made, it could not exceed the equivalent charge for an able-bodied driver for the same period.

Spoonie_Turtle

pogofish said:

Isn’t most hospital parking now the territory of private operators?

So the Blue Badge doesn’t even apply. It is the Equality Act that matters and that covers all suitably disabled people, regardless of any badge.

Also, the reason many people assume Blue Badge parking is free is because some large local authorities chose to make it so for legally regulated/on-street parking in their areas.

The Blue Badge legislation however made no requirement for charging either way and left that entirely up to the local authorities who operated the scheme. The only stipulation was that if any charge was made, it could not exceed the equivalent charge for an able-bodied driver for the same period.

True, but parking operators choose to require a Blue Badge to prove disability covered by the Equality Act. It's not a perfect system by any means because people still can be (and are) wrongly denied PIP and BBs. If everyone could be trusted to only use the spaces if they needed to things could be better, but we see time and again that people can't even follow rules that (supposedly) *have* a mechanism and standard for enforcement, let alone be trusted to do the right thing for the sake of it being the right thing to do.


Edit: @KxMx didn't see your post as I was typing. Yes I know it's theoretically possible if we needed to, but for us in our current situation they're is no point - it would only be moving to be nearer public transport and amenities (and to pay more rent for the privilege of moving too, unless we were to move to rural Wales or Yorkshire, thus still being rural so no point moving!). In our current situation that's nowhere near enough to make up for the detrimental effect it would have on most of us for all sorts of reasons. Which sounds really pathetic without going into any of those reasons, but still. I am glad it worked for you though

pogofish

Spoonie_Turtle said:

True, but parking operators choose to require a Blue Badge to prove disability covered by the Equality Act.

The Equality Act does not require that level of “proof” and anyway, private parking companies (plus POPLA and the IAS) seldom if ever consider any aspect of proof or mitigation in appeals/challenges to their tickets, so I’d contend they don’t.

Plus, when properly/legally and promptly informed of eligibility under the Equality Act, PALS at hospitals will in most cases ensure that any tickets are cancelled, so once again, a badge is not needed plus many hospitals operate a “whitelist” system where eligible disabled people and their able-able bodied drivers can park without being ticketed.

Spoonie_Turtle

pogofish said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

True, but parking operators choose to require a Blue Badge to prove disability covered by the Equality Act.

The Equality Act does not require that level of “proof” and anyway, private parking companies (plus POPLA and the IAS) seldom if ever consider any aspect of proof or mitigation in appeals/challenges to their tickets, so I’d contend they don’t.

Plus, when properly/legally and promptly informed of eligibility under the Equality Act, PALS at hospitals will in most cases ensure that any tickets are cancelled, so once again, a badge is not needed plus many hospitals operate a “whitelist” system where eligible disabled people and their able-able bodied drivers can park without being ticketed.

That's very interesting. I would imagine most disabled people don't know that.

I'd never considered using the Equality Act to be entitled to park near the entrances of places before I had my Blue Badge, or to park in spaces with extra room at the side when later (after I could no longer drag myself around the local small supermarket) getting the wheelchair out of the boot in ordinary parking spaces and having to sit in the 'road' felt downright dangerous - and I knew about the Equality Act! I still come across people who have no idea it exists or that they have any legal rights.