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CCJ - Unsure If I can fight it!

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  • BangeF2BangeF2 Forumite
    49 posts
    10 Posts Name Dropper
    Just reposting of the original timelines with personal details taken out (the posts with personal details have been reported to take down)
    CCJ 1:
     Fxxxxxxx
    Date of Parking events: 
    ON LBC dated sent on 1st May 2019 to Lancs add:
    12/11/2017, 07/10/201, 07/11/2017, 18/11/2017, 25/11/2017, 27/11/217, 06/12/2017, 10/12/2017, 26/11/2017 
    Dates of parking events Via CCBC email on 9th June 2020:
    THE DRIVER OF THE VEHICLE WITH REGISTRATION xxxxx (THE 'VEHICLE') PARKED IN BREACH OF THE TERMS OF PARKING STIPULATED ON THE SIGNAGE (THE 'CONTRACT') AT xxxxxxxxx , ON 12/11/2017, 07/10/2017, 07/10/2017,07/10/2017 THUS INCURRING THE PARKING CHARGES(THE 'PCN'S'). THE DRIVER OF THE VEHICLE AGREED TO PAY THE PCN'S WITHIN 28 DAYS OF ISSUE YET FAILED TO DO SO. THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS UNPAID PCN'S FROM THE DEFENDANT AS THE DRIVER/KEEPER OF THE VEHICLE. DESPITE DEMANDS BEING MADE, THE DEFENDANT HAS FAILED TO SETTLE THEIR OUTSTANDING LIABILITY. THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS £100 PER PCN, £60.00 PER PCN CONTRACTUAL COSTS PURSUANT TO THE CONTRACT AND PCN TERMS AND CONDITIONS, TOGETHER WITH STATUTORY INTEREST OF £86.06 PURSUANT TO S69 OF THE COUNTY COURTS ACT 1984 AT 8.00% PER ANNUM, CONTINUING AT £0.14 PER DAY.
    An LBC was sent to the Lancs add on 1st May 2019
    An LBC was sent to London add on 31st May 2019
    Date of claim: 22nd July 2019
    Date of default judgment: 16th August 2019
    Claim Amount: 881.43
    Date of any communications using NEW London address: only LBC sent on 31st May 2019
    Date of house move: Left Lancs add in September 2016 to move to Brighton, left Brighton and moved to London October 2017, been in London address since. 
    Date DVLA informed: DVLA updated August 2019 after Car was given/sold to my mother. 
    Date of being on the electoral roll at London Add: since 1 Dec 2018
    Compliant with other bills, taxes, worked as a psychological therapist as London's busiest NHS Talking Therapies Services and never went on the dole. 
    CCJ 1 discovered on 9th June 2020:
    - 9th June 2020 Found out this CCJ on credit file when looking at wanting to move to my own home either to rent or buy.
    - 9th June 2020 Contacted CCBC on 9th June 2020 to query, was given details about G solicitors and PCM
    - 9th June 2020 Called G solicitors and was told to seek legal advice and that I wouldn't be spoken to on the phone.
    - 9th June 2020 Google search for info on what to do and how to deal, called up 6 solicitors in the area, three got back to me, one stating that the costs would exceed the claim amount, another stating the claim amount wasn't high enough, another stating not having capacity to deal with new claims due to pandemic. 
    - 9th June 2020 contacted CAB twice who stated general advice on setting aside and/or paying off CCJ. No formal advice on disputing the claim but did state asking for a SAR to G Solicitors . Also asked to called Step change for support. 
    -  9th June 2020 sent SAR to G solicitors
    - 10th June 2020 Called Step Change who stated the same, unable to help with this and referred me to three solicitors and the Law Centres Network
    - Called other solicitors for advice during this time but no response.
    - 15th June 2020 Received Email back from G solicitors with details of CCJ Judgement, letters sent to addresses and LBCs
    - 29th June 2020 Emailed The Law Centres Network who stated they couldnt help with this type of claim.
    - 30th June 2020 Finally googled some more and came to this forum and now looking at getting advice to complete n422 and setting this aside.  
    - 3rd July 2020 - also spoke to National Debt line to get further support but advised to speak with CAB. 
    _____________________
    CCJ 2 - Dxxxxxx
    - 13th July 2020 When writing up details for N422 for CCJ 1, noticed different claim number in SAR paperwork from G solicitors 
    - 13th July 2020 Called G solicitors to ask and they stated there was another CCJ on their file (not on my credit report) 
    Date(s) of parking events: 29/05/2017 on LBC

    Date of parking event via CCBC emailed on 14th July 2020:

    THE DRIVER OF THE VEHICLE REGISTRATION xxxxxx (THE 'VEHICLE') INCURRED THE PARKING CHARGE(S) ON 29/05/2017 FOR BREACHING THE TERMS OF PARKING ON THE LAND AT xxxxxxxxxxxxxx   THE DEFENDANT WAS DRIVING THE VEHICLE AND/OR IS THE KEEPER OF THE VEHICLE.AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS £160 FOR PARKING CHARGES / DAMAGES AN INDEMNITY COSTS IF APPLICABLE, TOGETHER WITH INTEREST OF £3.79 PURSUANT TO S69 OF THE COUNTY COURTS ACT 1984 AT 8% PA, CONTINUING  TO JUDGMENT AT £0.04 PER DAY.    

    Claim amount: £262.02

    Date of LBC at Lancs add only: 26th Sept 2017

    Date of claim: 13th October 2017

    Date of default judgment: 20th November 2017

    No communications made to New London Address
    Date of house move: Left Lancs add in September 2016 to move to Brighton, left Brighton and moved to London October 2017, been in London address since. 
    Date DVLA informed: DVLA updated August 2019 after Car was given/sold to my mother. 
    Date of being on the electoral roll at London Add: since 1 Dec 2018
    ______
    Current situation: Trying to set aside 2 CCJs

  • BangeF2BangeF2 Forumite
    49 posts
    10 Posts Name Dropper
    Have I missed it or have you still not got a copy of the claim forms from the CCBC, showing the address the claim forms went to?  NOT THE LBC.
    07/10/2017, 07/10/2017,07/10/2017
    LOL!  That's easy to deny then, there were not three PCNs on the same day.

    The CCBC asked for a £10 charge for the reports to be sent. I support I should pay and get them sent so I can use them in my appendix right? She stated the judge would have this on file anyway and that she can provide me with the details that I want over the phone. Is it better to get them sent out to me so I can add to appendix? Sorry unsure how much paperwork I need with my n422.
  • BangeF2BangeF2 Forumite
    49 posts
    10 Posts Name Dropper
    henrik777 said:
    Mandatory set aside - read CPR13.2  and accompanying
    Claim was never served
    if it was never served then the time limit to defend never started
    If it never started it could never expire 
    If it could not expire they cannot apply for default judgement as you can only do so if the time to defend has expired.
    Does this make sense? 
    No, because they did apply for, and were granted, a set aside  :D

    But yes, the circumstances are as you describe, they were not entitled to it and it should be set aside.
    @nosferatu1001  
    Yes I understand this perfectly. They were never entitled to the set aside as it was never served correctly in the first place, but this only for CCJ 1 right?
    what about CCJ 2 as I have to do a seperate n422 for this, right? Would this be a discretionary set aside based on their lack of tracing? Could I link it to CCJ1 and say how they have shown the ability to trace there so why didn't they with this one? 
  • edited 15 July at 9:50PM
    Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    edited 15 July at 9:50PM
    Ask the CCBC if they are trying to charge for a subject access request?  If so, that was banned under GDPR in 2018.  It's not allowed to charge for your right of access to data.  Or, is it their policy in which case can they show you how that figure was arrived at, and how does such a policy fit with the GDPR which bans charges like this?

    If you have to pay it, get an email receipt and add it to your costs assessment to ask the Judge to order to be paid by the Claimant for putting you in this position.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
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  • henrik777henrik777 Forumite
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    BangeF2 said:
    henrik777 said:
    Mandatory set aside - read CPR13.2  and accompanying
    Claim was never served
    if it was never served then the time limit to defend never started
    If it never started it could never expire 
    If it could not expire they cannot apply for default judgement as you can only do so if the time to defend has expired.
    Does this make sense? 
    No, because they did apply for, and were granted, a set aside  :D

    But yes, the circumstances are as you describe, they were not entitled to it and it should be set aside.
    @nosferatu1001  
    Yes I understand this perfectly. They were never entitled to the set aside as it was never served correctly in the first place, but this only for CCJ 1 right?
    what about CCJ 2 as I have to do a seperate n422 for this, right? Would this be a discretionary set aside based on their lack of tracing? Could I link it to CCJ1 and say how they have shown the ability to trace there so why didn't they with this one? 
    It's a strong argument for the one they sent a LBC to a different address.

    I would argue the same for the other one stating no response is a "reason to believe" and a simple trace should have been done. But i'd make a secondary submission that you should be allowed to defend as there is a good reason (that being you didn't get the calim etc) in case the court doesn't like the 13.2 argument without the extra address.
  • BangeF2BangeF2 Forumite
    49 posts
    10 Posts Name Dropper
    Ask the CCBC if they are trying to charge for a subject access request?  If so, that was banned under GDPR in 2018.  It's not allowed to charge for your right of access to data.  Or, is it their policy in which case can they show you how that figure was arrived at, and how does such a policy fit with the GDPR which bans charges like this?

    If you have to pay it, get an email receipt and add it to your costs assessment to ask the Judge to order to be paid by the Claimant for putting you in this position.
    she said it was a cost of sending out the paper work. Perhaps admin costs? I will call up again tomorrow and query what youve said.
    I sent a SAR to the solicitors and PCM but not to the CCBC as I spoke to them over the phone. I will send them an email specifically for an SAR now. 


  • BangeF2BangeF2 Forumite
    49 posts
    10 Posts Name Dropper
    New information: 
    Slight worried now as im seeing the details of all the claims in the SAR sent back by PCM. It appears the signage below was around the area that I had parked. I wonder how that may look for me in court? Also in one picture, there is a yellow ticket displayed on my windscreen. I genuinely don't remember this and whether I paid it or not. Im now worried how this will show up in court. This is in relation to the 3 tickets all issued on 7th July 2017 and it appears the SAR has only evidence 2 of the 3 tickets which were issued like 20-30 mins apart, and also what appears to be be issued at the request of the residents and a 'neighbourhood manager'? What do you think this means for me in course in terms of defence? I guess we are focusing on the CCJ's and not the details of the parking invoices right?

  • BangeF2BangeF2 Forumite
    49 posts
    10 Posts Name Dropper
    Could someone please direct me to the best template on the newbies thread to use to input all this evidence and info i am gathering? Im slightly confused which ones apply to me? sorry if this is obvious. still learning. 
  • edited 15 July at 11:52PM
    Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    edited 15 July at 11:52PM
    Errrrm, PCM signs all look like that one! 

    How is this not unexpected; of course they had their crappy signs up!

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2015/05/is-it-pcm-uk-who-make-up-stuff-all-time.html

    she said it was a cost of sending out the paper work. 
    Ideally, you want it by email...

    Could someone please direct me to the best template on the newbies thread to use to input all this evidence and info i am gathering? Im slightly confused which ones apply to me? sorry if this is obvious. still learning. 
    Search the NEWBIES thread for the words 'set aside' or just 'CCJ' and re-read that section.  NO LINK.  Your PC will find it by doing control & f.


    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • BangeF2BangeF2 Forumite
    49 posts
    10 Posts Name Dropper
    Errrrm, PCM signs all look like that one! 

    How is this not unexpected, if course they had their crappy signs up!

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2015/05/is-it-pcm-uk-who-make-up-stuff-all-time.html

    she said it was a cost of sending out the paper work. 
    Ideally, you want it by email...

    Could someone please direct me to the best template on the newbies thread to use to input all this evidence and info i am gathering? Im slightly confused which ones apply to me? sorry if this is obvious. still learning. 
    Search the NEWBIES thread for the words 'set aside' or just 'CCJ' and re-read that section.  NO LINK.  Your PC will find it by doing control & f.


    Thank you 
    what about,....
    ''Also in one picture, there is a yellow ticket displayed on my windscreen. I genuinely don't remember this and whether I paid it or not. Im now worried how this will show up in court. This is in relation to the 3 tickets all issued on 7th July 2017 and it appears the SAR has only evidence 2 of the 3 tickets which were issued like 20-30 mins apart, and also what appears to be be issued at the request of the residents and a 'neighbourhood manager'? What do you think this means for me in course in terms of defence? I guess we are focusing on the CCJ's and not the details of the parking invoices right?''
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