CCJ - Unsure If I can fight it!

Coupon-mad

Yes you can cover all this in the oral (telephone) hearing and I doubt the Judge will be fooled by what the PPC has thrown at it.  The Judge will want to hear from you why you think the CCJ should be set aside, either because the situation meets the Mandatory Set Aside rules or, as a fall back, the Discretionary set aside rules in CPR13. 

This may include summarising your defence, so be familiar with that too, but the main thrust will be:

'was this claim defectively served (i.e. not received because a lack of steps were taken to check the address) or not? 
...if not - i.e. if the claim was validly served - as a fallback position, is there a good reason to set aside the CCJ and allow this person to defend the claim?'

Make sure you comply with all deadlines in that order, including providing your phone number to the court in good time as well as emailing everything to the court and claimant's solicitors.  You know that they are a robo-claim solicitor who will facilitate ANY argument if they think it will bully and harass the consumer into giving up, or if they think they might fool a new Judge who hasn't seen many parking cases and doesn't yet realise they are always a scam claim.  They are hoping to fool one or the other with lots of pages and pointless, irrelevant argument.

Don't let their 'throwing the toys out of the pram' put you off!  

henrik777

BangeF2 said:

Update:
I have received a Trail bundle back for CCJ 1 from the claimant solicitors disagreeing with my points for a set aside. I was wondering what I would need to do next?
I took a look at the telephone hearing thread and it said to liaise with the claimant party and try to come to an agreement before the telephone hearing? what would be the best way to do this? 
Also do I need to submit a trial bundle to the claimant? 

thanks.

In all honesty, it's better people aren't left to guess. If you can't communicate what the orders/letters say just post them up (removing personal information). You'll get better help if people have a better grasp of what's going on.

Coupon-mad

I took a look at the telephone hearing thread and it said to liaise with the claimant party and try to come to an agreement before the telephone hearing? 

No, it doesn't.

BangeF2

hey guys.

So the first CCJ has been rescheduled. 
The second is due soon and is asking for the following to be sent 48 hours before the hearing:
a case summary and chronology - is that like a content page? 
The parties positions statement if available - how would it best to write this up?
The previous orders that are relevant to the remove hearing - this is obviously linked to ccj one so do I just make a simple note to say this? 
All essential documents that the court requires to determine the issue that fall for determination at the remote hearing - that would be the WS, the draft order and the defence plus evidence right?
A Draft order - as above 
Contact list detailing all parties involved - a simple list of our details? 

then it also says the parties shall file their position statement by email to the court office on the day of the hearing? What is a position statement? Witness statement? 

Also when speaking about this during the hearing, I imagine the claimant solicitors will try to argue that the claim forms etc was sent to the right address as on DVLA records but then I found this ccj lodged in the details of another ccj bundle and I have to say that I was easily found. Would I quote the CPR for a discretionary set aside? and then refer to the defence quote text from the Southampton case?

Sorry if these are silly questions. Im trying my best with undderstanding all of this. Again, just a person whos very unfamiliar with law stuff but can make sense of it when it is explained. 

thanks, 

BangeF2

Thank  you for your email. I have been googling and following what I can. 
The first CCJ telephone hearing has been postponed as the court was 'vacant' and the judge was no longer available. 
The second CCJ telephone hearing has also been adjourned. 
I am now waiting to hear back from the courts about when the next hearings will be. 

BangeF2

Hey all! Thanks for all you help and support in managing these CCJs. 

Update: 
CCj 1 - mandatory set aside granted. 14 days to file a defence. What is the best thread or link that can show me how to best file a defence? 
CCj 2 - not set aside - dismissed as it does not have grounds for a defence. Court stated that it had to look at CPR 13 and 6 and found that the claimant did check DVLA and take appropriate measures to find my last known add but its not their fault it was wrong one. I have 21 days to appeal the decision. im not sure what i can say further to fight this one? It was a genuine mistake not to update my DVLA but i was still locatable nonetheless. 

Coupon-mad

Look at other set aside threads as you need to send a witness statement and evidence as well.

As for the defence it’s obviously the one in the ‘template defence’ sticky thread unless it’s ParkingEye.

I would apply to appeal the decision to refuse to set aside the second one because surely you have a defence and surely they didn’t evidence that they took any steps to find you?  Tell us more about this one and did this all happen at one hearing or did you just get a bad Judge second time around?

You had a defence against PCM not only that the signs were unclear and they were issuing immediate tickets in seconds, with no grace period, but ALSO your Judge erred by not considering that ‘cause of action estoppel’ means that no second claim should have been filed at all.  

A claimant is required to advance their whole case as one claim, not split them up and issue more than one claim about matters of the same facts.  You should never have had to fight two separate CCJs and the Judge should have consolidated them or struck the second claim out and set the CCJ aside, granting your costs due to the abuse of filing two claims, causing you two sets of costs.

BangeF2

Coupon-mad said:

Look at other set aside threads as you need to send a witness statement and evidence as well.

As for the defence it’s obviously the one in the ‘template defence’ sticky thread unless it’s ParkingEye.

I would apply to appeal the decision to refuse to set aside the second one because surely you have a defence and surely they didn’t evidence that they took any steps to find you?  Tell us more about this one and did this all happen at one hearing or did you just get a bad Judge second time around?

You had a defence against PCM not only that the signs were unclear and they were issuing immediate tickets in seconds, with no grace period, but ALSO your Judge erred by not considering that ‘cause of action estoppel’ means that no second claim should have been filed at all.  

A claimant is required to advance their whole case as one claim, not split them up and issue more than one claim about matters of the same facts.  You should never have had to fight two separate CCJs and the Judge should have consolidated them or struck the second claim out and set the CCJ aside, granting your costs due to the abuse of filing two claims, causing you two sets of costs.

HI there
CCJ 1 - set aside:
I wrote a defence using the sticky thread template for the hearing (to show i had prospects of fighting this) would i need to adjust this according to the details in the hearing and send it off? Same goes for WS or can I just send it off? or just send the same info as before?

I couldn't find a thread which shared explicitly what you need to do after your CCJ has been granted a set aside. The judge only mentioned sending a defence which i assume is to the same courts. 

As for CCJ2: 

I have until 27th to appeal this to the Circuit judge at the county court in central london as the judge refused my application to appeal at my hearing as a final order. 

The court was satisfied that the claim forms were served according to CPR 6.9 and properly entered CPR 12 ad therefore it should be considered under CPR 13.3 (2) which the court was satisfied with but didn't feel i demonstrated the ground for CPR 13.3(1) a or b.

The hearing for this one didn't actually go ahead at the time it was allocated due to an issue on the court sides. They were struggling to find all the info about the claimant  (which is why both CCJs were then discussed within the other CCJ hearing all within an hour). Makes me wonder why i paid for two hearings?!

'You had a defence against PCM not only that the signs were unclear and they were issuing immediate tickets in seconds, with no grace period,' - yes i dont think i made these points clear. I wasnt sure what CPR would best represent these points. Felt very confused with all the CPR references.

'but ALSO your Judge erred by not considering that ‘cause of action estoppel’ means that no second claim should have been filed at all. ' - do you mean they shouldnt have filed another CCJ/claim form if one was already active?

'A claimant is required to advance their whole case as one claim, not split them up and issue more than one claim about matters of the same facts.  You should never have had to fight two separate CCJs and the Judge should have consolidated them or struck the second claim out and set the CCJ aside, granting your costs due to the abuse of filing two claims, causing you two sets of costs.' - I could put this forward as my reasons to appeal with the courts in central london? 


Thanks in advance for your support. 

Coupon-mad

Yes to the above final questions. You can easily Google cause of action estoppel.

And it’s not in the CPRs about signage, it’s in the Trade Body code of practice and in the Consumer Rights Act 2015, that requires consumer notices and terms to be ‘prominent’. 

I share your view that you have already paid for two hearings so I would also state that in your appeal application but you are going to have to get your head around the issues far better.

And an appeal to a judgment MUST show that the Judge ‘erred in law’ so I would use cause of action estoppel and failure to properly consider CPR 13.2. Never mind 13.3, this claim fell at the 13.2 hurdle and it is NEVER acceptable for a parking firm to rely months/years later on known unreliable DVLA data! It’s a basic requirement of the CPRs and it’s in the Parking firm trade body Code of Practice that they MUST take steps to find the right address for service before filing a claim.

And they should have filed just ONE claim, not cost you two lots of costs and fees = cause of action estoppel should have been applied by the Judge.  It’s trite law that shouldn’t have to be raised by a litigant in person who knows nothing about the law.  This single hearing failed CPR 1 and didn’t deal with the duplicate facts claims justly.  The Judge has fallen into error.

You are time bound to object to that judgment so crack on quickly and find out from the court which form to use and fee to pay for an appeal.  I can never remember it.

...and for the one that was set aside, surely you found shedloads of threads talking about post set aside stage and sending a WS and Evidence (as well as the defence) even though the Judge hasn’t asked for it.   Of course it’s not the same WS as the one about the set aside and that the claim form was not being properly served.  It’s evidence in support of your defence to the PCNs on that claim.

BangeF2

Coupon-mad said:

Yes to the above final questions. You can easily Google cause of action estoppel.

And it’s not in the CPRs about signage, it’s in the Trade Body code of practice and in the Consumer Rights Act 2015, that requires consumer notices and terms to be ‘prominent’. 

I share your view that you have already paid for two hearings so I would also state that in your appeal application but you are going to have to get your head around the issues far better.

And an appeal to a judgment MUST show that the Judge ‘erred in law’ so I would use cause of action estoppel and failure to properly consider CPR 13.2. Never mind 13.3, this claim fell at the 13.2 hurdle and it is NEVER acceptable for a parking firm to rely months/years later on known unreliable DVLA data! It’s a basic requirement of the CPRs and it’s in the Parking firm trade body Code of Practice that they MUST take steps to find the right address for service before filing a claim.

And they should have filed just ONE claim, not cost you two lots of costs and fees = cause of action estoppel should have been applied by the Judge.  It’s trite law that shouldn’t have to be raised by a litigant in person who knows nothing about the law.  This single hearing failed CPR 1 and didn’t deal with the duplicate facts claims justly.  The Judge has fallen into error.

You are time bound to object to that judgment so crack on quickly and find out from the court which form to use and fee to pay for an appeal.  I can never remember it.

...and for the one that was set aside, surely you found shedloads of threads talking about post set aside stage and sending a WS and Evidence (as well as the defence) even though the Judge hasn’t asked for it.   Of course it’s not the same WS as the one about the set aside and that the claim form was not being properly served.  It’s evidence in support of your defence to the PCNs on that claim.

Thank you for the above. This all makes sense and I will be refereeing to this in my appeal over the next week.

'...and for the one that was set aside, surely you found shedloads of threads talking about post set aside stage and sending a WS and Evidence (as well as the defence) even though the Judge hasn’t asked for it.   Of course it’s not the same WS as the one about the set aside and that the claim form was not being properly served.  It’s evidence in support of your defence to the PCNs on that claim.' 

I've checked the newbies thread where I've been referred to time and time again and it only talks about what to do before the hearing or to apply to set aside but not after.... Would you be able to direct me with a link?