David Lloyd’s membership freeze question

tripled

The OP entered into a 12 month contract for gym membership. For reasons outside the gyms control, they couldn't supply the service for a period and so (correctly) waived the charges. Unless there is something to specific to say otherwise in the contract I see no reason why, legally or morally, the contract should be extended.

In terms of whether or not something was "unforeseen", gyms may have planned or unplanned closures for a variety of reasons (fire, flood or refurbishment being examples). I'm surprised the T's and C's don't cater for this, it would be an oversight on David Lloyds' part if so.

If the boot was on the other foot and the OP was ill for a few weeks and so couldn't use their services, I'm sure David Lloyd would have quite happily kept taking the money. They would not be under any obligation offer a freeze/extension and if they did so, it would be a goodwill/customer service gesture.

Locking people into a contract is an inflexible legacy approach to gym membership these days. The sooner it dies out completely the better.

unholyangel

Jeremy535897 said:

Thanks for that. It looks as if these frozen periods cannot be enforced, then, and everyone holding a membership that cannot be fulfilled can cancel and pay no further instalments?

Nothing to stop the members agreeing to an extension, if it suits them. But the gym can't force it. What DL are trying to do in OP's situation (if i've understood it right) is effectively extend either the fixed duration or minimum duration. Which is a detriment to the OP because its binding them to a period longer than/beyond what they agreed (or a new requirement - to tie in with the paragraphes I quotes). 

I get why people are giving the responses they are (that OP agreed to pay 12 months and will stay pay 12 months, even if it was different months he agreed to pay) but as I said, not paying for several months was because the gym were in breach - they don't get to pass the risk/liability of that breach to the OP by requiring OP to pay for different months. 

Believe it or not, there were loads more paragraphs that could be relevant, but it was getting ridiculously long so I tried to cut it down to the most relevant ones! 

adamp87

gettingtheresometime said:

dnicu26 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

I assumed that the issue was that you could cancel in the initial period, but not afterwards (until the membership runs out), so if the initial period expires during the frozen period, and you can't contact them to cancel, you have to pay the rest of the membership year once it is unfrozen. I would have expected that while the membership is frozen, the initial period is frozen too, but the original terms and conditions presumably didn't foresee this situation, and the amendments made to create the frozen period presumably didn't address the issue?

Gyms open in a fortnight, so I suggest OP raises the issue as soon as he can. It may well be that the original initial period hasn't expired yet.

Hi, What I meant by initial period is the initial 12 month contract that I signed up for. I am free to cancel after that but not in the first 12 months which end in August. But since the memberships have been frozen they are now not counting the frozen months which does not seem right to me. I signed up for the first 12 consecutive months. That’s what I wanted to clarify. Anyways, I have emailed them but I wanted to see if others are in the same boat, so wanting to cancel but the gyms making their own rules on reopening. 

I'm with Bradders on this one.

you can't have it both ways - on one hand you'd have kicked up a fuss if they'd carried on charging you during lockdown and now you're kicking up a fuss because they are saying rightly imo that those months didn't count as they froze your membership 

I think that too, contrary to the alternative opinion but who knows. It feels more OP wants to escape the cost of the missing/remaining months more than being upset/put out that the gym was closed for 4-5 months, might we add because of a worldwide pandemic.

However that said, looking into it I don't believe any gym company has done court for a number of years, the costs are too high and they usually have lost. They'll pass the debt to a DCA who have no legal powers, are not bailiffs, and will just harass you over text/phone/letters. 

I imagine you'd still have to give notice, so you could write to them a months notice and pay for that month and leave it at that I guess.

dnicu26

Thank you all for the replies and for further clarifications unholyangel.
Hopefully, this thread will be able to help other people as well.

EDIT:
To everyone saying that I am looking to escape the contract, that is not true. However, I was outraged at their latest email on how they have decided to extend the contract without consulting with any of their members. 12 months is 12 months. It is common sense that you cannot just extend it out of nowhere. What happens to the people who still have to shield or those who are not on the shielding list but still have pre-existing conditions and would prefer not to expose themselves to unnecessary risk? We all know that gyms make money from exactly these kind of memberships that are not used. If DL really valued their members and if they knew they're selling a genuinely good product, then they would not have to extend the minimum term and keep people locked in - these are shady tactics. They would instead rely on people renewing their membership regardless of whether they are tied in to a contract or not. So yes, I am glad to be out of a contract from a company that obviously put profits ahead of members' satisfaction.

Jonesy1977

dnicu26 said:

Thank you all for the replies and for further clarifications unholyangel.
Hopefully, this thread will be able to help other people as well.

EDIT:
To everyone saying that I am looking to escape the contract, that is not true. However, I was outraged at their latest email on how they have decided to extend the contract without consulting with any of their members. 12 months is 12 months. It is common sense that you cannot just extend it out of nowhere. What happens to the people who still have to shield or those who are not on the shielding list but still have pre-existing conditions and would prefer not to expose themselves to unnecessary risk? We all know that gyms make money from exactly these kind of memberships that are not used. If DL really valued their members and if they knew they're selling a genuinely good product, then they would not have to extend the minimum term and keep people locked in - these are shady tactics. They would instead rely on people renewing their membership regardless of whether they are tied in to a contract or not. So yes, I am glad to be out of a contract from a company that obviously put profits ahead of members' satisfaction.

I am not sure that "shady tactics" or "profits ahead of members" rants or referencing circumstances that have no relationship to your own are relevant here.  David Lloyd communicated to you at the start of lock down that your membership was suspended one can only assume that they have used legal counsel to construct that communication and your legal advice is being taken from a thread on a forum (and you are of course only interested in the advice that suits your circumstances) .  I personally feel that you have a good case and that it is possible that they will allow you to leave, however by your logic that 12 months is 12 months then you should have paid during lock down surely?  or Its not your fault that they could not provide a service but it is equally not David Lloyd's fault either.  I wish you luck 

AlexMac

DL Freeze question? 

Freeze? 

You wanna know about Freeze?  I described my experience of a Freeze (in February at my local municipal Lido, where the stone-floored, unheated, poolside changing rooms are Arctic) in my response, #6 in the parallel thread about David Lloyd at
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6168358/david-lloyd-returning-to-the-gym#latest 
I was glad to get back to the comparative luxury of my local David Lloyd's outdoor pool and its heated suites and showers, lol!

fish_fingered

dnicu26 said:

Hi all,

Wondering someone could shed some light on this and I am sure there are other people in this boat too as it’s a general gym enquiry related to the membership freezes. 

I had signed up for one year David Lloyd’s membership in July 2019, fixed term for 12 months. Due to the covid situation, they froze memberships in March. Now they will be reopening end of July and they are saying that because of the membership freeze, they are extending the initial yearly membership by the duration of the lockdown so about 4 months.
Now at this point I do not intend to go back to David Lloyd’s as I have invested a fair amount in home equipment.

2 months ago I emailed and called them to let them know I want to cancel my membership at the end of the initial period which would be August and they said that was fine and will pass my details on to the club when it opens - apparently it is something that needs to be done locally.

However in the latest email it seems that they want to extend the initial yearly membership duration. The terms and conditions Only mention that if I choose to freeze my membership then The initial term will be extended by the frozen duration. However, the membership was frozen due to external factors, which is not covered in the terms and conditions booklet.
What are my rights here? Is anyone else in the same boat?
Thanks

I am taking the company to court and interested on hearing from other consumers experiencing the aggressive behaviour shown by David Lloyd, as indicated by the above.
A brief history:
I suffer from a disability and use the gym for therapeutic reasons (and need to so so on a regular basis). From the start I complained of the sanitation at the GYM, which was poor, access to wipes and antibac was non existent (facilities were not being maintained). I kept complaining and received lip service only to my concerns, this pattern continued right up to Covid 19 which I was astounded by, unfortunately  given my need to have access to a gym to manage my condition I had to keep using the facility. Despite living in the country (completely isolated), remote working (have done for years), practising mask wearing  and minimising contract I contracted Covid 19 before the lock down, I believe due to using the David Lloyd facilities at Eastbourne. The symptoms were much worse for me due to my disability than a normal suffered and I was near hospitalised as a consequence.  Even before lockdown, David Lloyd showed poor judgement in my view, using vague definitions of the membership with terms such as "freezing, reactivating memberships", which has no legal reference to the contract and does not properly advise the member on whether there rights are being considered. This unfortunately is a pattern of behaviour I have only seen in the worst possible service providers in my lifetime.  When I took out my contract I assumed I would have contiguous access to gym equipment in a safe and well maintained environment for a specific period (I work a consultant and travel from place to place for work). David Lloyd ask discussed in this thread have reinterpreted the engagement without any prior warning, if I had know this in advance I would never agreed to it.  Essentially David Lloyd have taken it upon themselves to change the main definition of the contract (its length), which is unlawful. Further they have failed to acknowledge that a contract where they agreed to provide a service for a given length contiguously, can be considered to be applicable, if that service was not provided (for whatever reason) for a significant period of time.  
David Lloyd as of this moment despite repeated requests refused to provide a copy of a contract to me, despite passing my details onto a debt collection agency. I am now forced to take legal action just to force them to give me a copy of the contract I was meant to have forwarded to me in January 2020. I wonder whether there is mass legal action being taken by David Lloyd against its members to "scare" them into adopting there interpretation of the contracts. 

jon81uk

dnicu26 said:

Thank you all for the replies and for further clarifications unholyangel.
Hopefully, this thread will be able to help other people as well.

EDIT:
To everyone saying that I am looking to escape the contract, that is not true. However, I was outraged at their latest email on how they have decided to extend the contract without consulting with any of their members. 12 months is 12 months. It is common sense that you cannot just extend it out of nowhere. What happens to the people who still have to shield or those who are not on the shielding list but still have pre-existing conditions and would prefer not to expose themselves to unnecessary risk? We all know that gyms make money from exactly these kind of memberships that are not used. If DL really valued their members and if they knew they're selling a genuinely good product, then they would not have to extend the minimum term and keep people locked in - these are shady tactics. They would instead rely on people renewing their membership regardless of whether they are tied in to a contract or not. So yes, I am glad to be out of a contract from a company that obviously put profits ahead of members' satisfaction.

I don't think there is any shady tactics or trying to "lock people in" any further than you already are locked in on the 12 month contract.
You agreed to pay 12 amounts of £XX and you are still being expected to pay 12 installments, just with a four month gap. If they had consulted members I think everyone would have taken the current situation of a freeze, rather than continuing to pay while the gym is closed.

As others point out there may be ways to get out of the contract due to covid causing breaches, but there is nothing shady about what they are doing.

If you didn't want a 12 month minimum term you could have taken their flexible membership with a three month minimum instead but a higher cost each month, or chosen a different gym (Puregym and The Gym both offer no minimum term, Virgin has a flexible membership at a higher price). You were not forced into paying 12 payments, there is other options.

fish_fingered

jon81uk said:

dnicu26 said:

Thank you all for the replies and for further clarifications unholyangel.
Hopefully, this thread will be able to help other people as well.

EDIT:
To everyone saying that I am looking to escape the contract, that is not true. However, I was outraged at their latest email on how they have decided to extend the contract without consulting with any of their members. 12 months is 12 months. It is common sense that you cannot just extend it out of nowhere. What happens to the people who still have to shield or those who are not on the shielding list but still have pre-existing conditions and would prefer not to expose themselves to unnecessary risk? We all know that gyms make money from exactly these kind of memberships that are not used. If DL really valued their members and if they knew they're selling a genuinely good product, then they would not have to extend the minimum term and keep people locked in - these are shady tactics. They would instead rely on people renewing their membership regardless of whether they are tied in to a contract or not. So yes, I am glad to be out of a contract from a company that obviously put profits ahead of members' satisfaction.

I don't think there is any shady tactics or trying to "lock people in" any further than you already are locked in on the 12 month contract.
You agreed to pay 12 amounts of £XX and you are still being expected to pay 12 installments, just with a four month gap. If they had consulted members I think everyone would have taken the current situation of a freeze, rather than continuing to pay while the gym is closed.

As others point out there may be ways to get out of the contract due to covid causing breaches, but there is nothing shady about what they are doing.

If you didn't want a 12 month minimum term you could have taken their flexible membership with a three month minimum instead but a higher cost each month, or chosen a different gym (Puregym and The Gym both offer no minimum term, Virgin has a flexible membership at a higher price). You were not forced into paying 12 payments, there is other options.

Despite repeated attempts to get a copy of a contract in writing David Lloyd have refused to provide me a copy, even though they repeatedly advised me they would. Having been a member of every major gym chain you mentioned and more over 25 years  that ranks fairly highly on my shadiness scale.

I agreed to pay for 12 instalments from January 2020 to January 2021 on the basis that I would receive a contiguous service , not when David Lloyd decided and/ or based on the consensus of other members. If they don't provide that service (for whatever reason) and as a result the terms of that contract are not met the contract is no longer valid. I unfortunately cannot provide you the terms as  reference since David Lloyd won't provide me a copy of the contract denying me my right to challenge the contractual terms on an informed basis. 

I have since managed to find the duplicate of my signing sheet (not a full contract, just a summary of terms) and as a result I am able to exit the contract as a result of Covid 19 triggering some of those clauses. I will still likely have to go to court because they having already contrived to pass me to a debt collect agency instead of sending me a contract (for which conveniently the agency has a 2 week query response period despite it stating that within 2 weeks its progressed to legal action), I doubt very much they will listen to reason. 

And its for this reason I have taken the time to highlight these issues because having been a frequent user of gym services, I feel that they have not only provided an incredibly poor service to me, they have acted in bad faith. Case in point the membership team are not taking calls (only by appointment which they they then cancelled without telling me), phone lines direct you to the reception which can rings out, despite this are able to efficiently pass you to a debt collection agency.  I suspect that before long David Lloyd's treatment of members will be spilling onto these forums (wait it already is).

jon81uk

Full terms are here, not hard to find at all
https://www.davidlloyd.co.uk/-/media/david-lloyd/files/uk-terms-and-conditions-october-2019-v2.pdf