Currently receiving PIP. If I apply for UC/DLA and get rejected, will I lose PIP?

quinq

calcotti said:

quinq said:

 What I don't know is what happens then - I'm still on the waiting list for a WCA, have been since April 2019. When my UC drops down to £0....... Do I just get scrapped off the list? If I was LCWRA it wouldn't drop to £0 it would go to about £80 during term time and about £800 the rest. 

There is a regulation that means that’s once a WCA referral has been made if there is no UC payable due to income a nominal award of 1p is made in order to keep the claim open until the WCA outcome is determined. 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/28
Regulation 28(7)

that's only for the assessment period though - but i did find this  spotlight guidance for jobcentre employees saying that no claim should be closed while waiting for a WCA. This came from a FOI request here

"IMPORTANT - for anyone on the health journey, who has yet to have their WCA or waiting the decision from that WCA, must not have their claim closed."

Spoonie_Turtle

Formerlychucks said:

This is the fear that I have in applying for UC. Are they even assessing people now? Do you just get accepted? In any case, I'm wondering if I get rejected whether I'd lose PIP.
Also, I'm considering going back to university; is it possible to receive both or either of these whilst studying?
Thanks

It occurs to me, in your title did you mean UC / DSA (Disabled Student's Allowance)? It's completely separate to UC (though I don't know how it would affect any UC award - you'd hope it would be treated like PIP because it's for the extra costs of disability but you'd need to look into it). https://www.gov.uk/disabled-students-allowances-dsas

[Not that OP appears to have been back since their post, but in case they're reading whilst logged out or getting e-mail notification or even if it helps anyone else looking for info.]

quinq

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Formerlychucks said:

This is the fear that I have in applying for UC. Are they even assessing people now? Do you just get accepted? In any case, I'm wondering if I get rejected whether I'd lose PIP.
Also, I'm considering going back to university; is it possible to receive both or either of these whilst studying?
Thanks

It occurs to me, in your title did you mean UC / DSA (Disabled Student's Allowance)? It's completely separate to UC (though I don't know how it would affect any UC award - you'd hope it would be treated like PIP because it's for the extra costs of disability but you'd need to look into it). https://www.gov.uk/disabled-students-allowances-dsas

[Not that OP appears to have been back since their post, but in case they're reading whilst logged out or getting e-mail notification or even if it helps anyone else looking for info.]

This is a good point - you also wouldn't lose PIP because of DSA being denied or vice versa. You don't have to provide proof of PIP for DSA or vice versa, just a diagnosis letter of what your disability is. The DSA assessment is also nothing like PIP ones - they want to work out the things that're gonna help you the most, as opposed to trying to make out that you're lying. The DSA assessor wants you to get everything you might need to do as well as you can

calcotti

quinq said:

calcotti said:

quinq said:

 What I don't know is what happens then - I'm still on the waiting list for a WCA, have been since April 2019. When my UC drops down to £0....... Do I just get scrapped off the list? If I was LCWRA it wouldn't drop to £0 it would go to about £80 during term time and about £800 the rest. 

There is a regulation that means that’s once a WCA referral has been made if there is no UC payable due to income a nominal award of 1p is made in order to keep the claim open until the WCA outcome is determined. 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/28
Regulation 28(7)

that's only for the assessment period though - but i did find this  spotlight guidance for jobcentre employees saying that no claim should be closed while waiting for a WCA. This came from a FOI request here

"IMPORTANT - for anyone on the health journey, who has yet to have their WCA or waiting the decision from that WCA, must not have their claim closed."

..’health journey’  - agh!

calcotti

quinq said:

calcotti said:

quinq said:

 What I don't know is what happens then - I'm still on the waiting list for a WCA, have been since April 2019. When my UC drops down to £0....... Do I just get scrapped off the list? If I was LCWRA it wouldn't drop to £0 it would go to about £80 during term time and about £800 the rest. 

There is a regulation that means that’s once a WCA referral has been made if there is no UC payable due to income a nominal award of 1p is made in order to keep the claim open until the WCA outcome is determined. 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/28
Regulation 28(7)

that's only for the assessment period though - but i did find this  spotlight guidance for jobcentre employees saying that no claim should be closed while waiting for a WCA. This came from a FOI request here

"IMPORTANT - for anyone on the health journey, who has yet to have their WCA or waiting the decision from that WCA, must not have their claim closed."

You have taken your quote out of context. The paragraph you have selected is under a heading “Nil award due to earnings.” This derives from the regulation I quoted (but does appear to extend the restriction beyond a three month relevant period to whatever period it takes for the WCA decision to be made. The quote therefore does not refer to the question of student entitlement.

This guidance in the House of Commons library appears to say that a claim will be closed if someone becomes a student before the WCA is complete http://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2019-0980/122_Students_Eligibility_conditionality_and_student_income_v16.0.pdf

The legal challenge referred to earlier is going to be an important test case.

quinq

calcotti said:

quinq said:

calcotti said:

quinq said:

 What I don't know is what happens then - I'm still on the waiting list for a WCA, have been since April 2019. When my UC drops down to £0....... Do I just get scrapped off the list? If I was LCWRA it wouldn't drop to £0 it would go to about £80 during term time and about £800 the rest. 

There is a regulation that means that’s once a WCA referral has been made if there is no UC payable due to income a nominal award of 1p is made in order to keep the claim open until the WCA outcome is determined. 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/28
Regulation 28(7)

that's only for the assessment period though - but i did find this  spotlight guidance for jobcentre employees saying that no claim should be closed while waiting for a WCA. This came from a FOI request here

"IMPORTANT - for anyone on the health journey, who has yet to have their WCA or waiting the decision from that WCA, must not have their claim closed."

You have taken your quote out of context. The paragraph you have selected is under a heading “Nil award due to earnings.” This derives from the regulation I quoted (but does appear to extend the restriction beyond a three month relevant period to whatever period it takes for the WCA decision to be made. The quote therefore does not refer to the question of student entitlement.

This guidance in the House of Commons library appears to say that a claim will be closed if someone becomes a student before the WCA is complete http://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2019-0980/122_Students_Eligibility_conditionality_and_student_income_v16.0.pdf

The legal challenge referred to earlier is going to be an important test case.

This is the contradiction I was talking about - the guidance says we cease to be eligible, but the people at UC say that if you're on the higher element of PIP you get to stay / make a new claim. I had the person on the phone check with 2 different higherups, and they were all absolutely adamant that it was the case; but I can't find it in any regulation or guidance anywhere. I'm going to ask for it in writing today, if they ever reply to my journal messages at least

calcotti

Universal Credit - the new simpler benefit system (in fairness, legacy benefits are a nightmare too).

quinq

quinq said:

calcotti said:

quinq said:

calcotti said:

quinq said:

 What I don't know is what happens then - I'm still on the waiting list for a WCA, have been since April 2019. When my UC drops down to £0....... Do I just get scrapped off the list? If I was LCWRA it wouldn't drop to £0 it would go to about £80 during term time and about £800 the rest. 

There is a regulation that means that’s once a WCA referral has been made if there is no UC payable due to income a nominal award of 1p is made in order to keep the claim open until the WCA outcome is determined. 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/376/regulation/28
Regulation 28(7)

that's only for the assessment period though - but i did find this  spotlight guidance for jobcentre employees saying that no claim should be closed while waiting for a WCA. This came from a FOI request here

"IMPORTANT - for anyone on the health journey, who has yet to have their WCA or waiting the decision from that WCA, must not have their claim closed."

You have taken your quote out of context. The paragraph you have selected is under a heading “Nil award due to earnings.” This derives from the regulation I quoted (but does appear to extend the restriction beyond a three month relevant period to whatever period it takes for the WCA decision to be made. The quote therefore does not refer to the question of student entitlement.

This guidance in the House of Commons library appears to say that a claim will be closed if someone becomes a student before the WCA is complete http://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2019-0980/122_Students_Eligibility_conditionality_and_student_income_v16.0.pdf

The legal challenge referred to earlier is going to be an important test case.

This is the contradiction I was talking about - the guidance says we cease to be eligible, but the people at UC say that if you're on the higher element of PIP you get to stay / make a new claim. I had the person on the phone check with 2 different higherups, and they were all absolutely adamant that it was the case; but I can't find it in any regulation or guidance anywhere. I'm going to ask for it in writing today, if they ever reply to my journal messages at least

This issue I think is that even is this is true and they won't close all claims atomically, without the extra element student income reduces most to 0 anyway

quinq

Indeed.
CAB are referring me on to their benefits specialist, who's away this week, so we'll see what happens when they contact me again. Nothing from the UC folks yet, although I apparently attended my appointment at 2:35pm today already... But I made another for Monday to hopefully get their position straightened out and clearly recorded, so again we shall see

The problem seems twofold to me; 

1. whether disabled students already claiming UC and waiting for a WCA on the 'health journey' stop receiving UC when they become a student, as the regs seem to say; or whether they can continue receiving whatever they're entitled without the work allowance or LCWRA elements while they wait for a WCA, as the Oxford Jobcentre say
2. whether students eligible for UC who have an award of nil during the academic year because of student loans have to reclaim every single summer for the months where their student loan is not included as income - thus changing the assessment period every time and having the 6 week wait every time - or whether the claim will stay held

Do you agree? Anything else to question them about?

On a personal note, this is unbelievably frustrating because I know without a doubt that I fall into their LCWRA group: I use a wheelchair full time and I can't transfer from it to a chair, bed, etc without help - that's one of the LCWRA criteria right there. I get 21 points on LCW (1b, 9; 3c, 6; 9b, 6) as well. And since I declared that from day 1 in April 2019, they're gonna owe me a lot of backdated money that I don't want to lose if my claim is cancelled and I have to restart it after getting a WCA through ESA!

calcotti

quinq said: On a personal note, this is unbelievably frustrating because I know without a doubt that I fall into their LCWRA group: I use a wheelchair full time and I can't transfer from it to a chair, bed, etc without help - that's one of the LCWRA criteria right there. I get 21 points on LCW (1b, 9; 3c, 6; 9b, 6) as well. And since I declared that from day 1 in April 2019, they're gonna owe me a lot of backdated money that I don't want to lose if my claim is cancelled and I have to restart it after getting a WCA through ESA!

If you applied in April 2019 what has happened that has stopped you getting a WCA decision?