Landlord question - how much do I charge my tenants please?

big_gus

Hi all,
Any help appreciated please. My nightmare tenants are finally leaving after a year of late payments etc. Their year’s tenancy ended on April 11th this year and they informed me they wished to go onto a rolling monthly periodic. On May 30 they sent an email giving me “4 weeks notice to leave no later than June 27”. They also added: “A deduction from the deposit of the pro rata rent for the 24th-27th June can be made.“

The tenancy began on April 12 so ended on April 11. I have no idea where they are getting the 24th as an ending date. 

Anyway, I digress! They only actually moved out on June 30 (leaving a skip on the driveway which still hasn’t been removed). They are now saying I can deduct the pro-rata rent (which they claim is six days from 24th til 30th).

This has now fried my brain to the extent I don’t only what the pro rata rate for six days would be (rent was £1400pcm) as some months have 30 days and some 31. 

Just want to know how much of the deposit should I return 😣🤯
Thanks for any assistance. 

grumiofoundation

£1400 x 12 = £16800

£16800/365 = £46

£46 x 6 = £276

greatcrested

* Tenancy periods were 12th - 11th of each month.

* assuming you accept notices by email (does the tenancy agreement state this?), then notice served on 30th May would expire on 11th July (full tenancy period 12th June - 11th July).

* so rent is due till 11th July and deductions can be made for any rent owed till then

* if the deposit is insufficient, court proceedings could be used

* or - bite the bullet, be thankful they're gone and deduct pro rata as grumiofoundation calculates!

Note: this assumes the periodic tenancy was statutory, not contractual - if contractual the required notice period is whatever the contract states.

penguineater

Do you have late rent payment fees written into your tenancy agreement? Could be an idea for your future tenants.

https://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/late-rent-payment-fees/

https://blog.openrent.co.uk/tenant-fees-ban-what-landlords-need-to-know/

big_gus

Greatcrested, thank you for your response which is very much appreciated. I had no idea of that. They have been such a pain in the backside and I’m glad they have gone...however the suggestion I don’t have to return their £1400 confuses me. They gave me 4weeks notice on May 30th with an intention to move out on June 27 (exactly four weeks!). Following your post I’m assuming they aren’t allowed to do that? So I am not obliged to return their deposit?

greatcrested

Do they pay rent monthly?

Does their tenancy agreement state what happens when the fixed term expires?

If yes, what notice period does the tenancy agreement state?

If no mention of a Contractual Periodic Tenancy following the fixed term, with a specified notice period, then a Statutory Periodic Tenancy arose automatically.

A SPT requires one full tenancy periods notice ie from 12th - 11th in your case.

Where did they/you get 4 weeks from?

As a landlord you really should know this stuff! Now read:

Post 4: Ending/renewing an AST: what happens when a fixed term ends? How can a LL or tenant end a tenancy? What is a periodic tenancy?

They can 'move out' whenever they want, but that does not end their tenancy, nor end their liability for rent.

Grumpy_chap

Did they pay in full up to 24th June?
30 days in June, so 6 days out of 30 x £1,400.  I make that £280.
Also any costs for any damage and / or getting the skip collected.

greatcrested

Grumpy_chap said:

Did they pay in full up to 24th June?
30 days in June, so 6 days out of 30 x £1,400.  I make that £280.

Depends whether you calculate the daily rate from the annual rent or from the monthly rent where months differ in length.

I don't believe there is legal precedent as to which should be used, but happy to be corrected by anyone who can link to a binding court decision.

mlz1413

Hang in, the deposit is for damage first and foremost. So that should be used for the cost of removing the skip and putting right any damage.  If you have a signed inventory from when they moved in.  Then payment of any bills outstanding, have you checked the gas, elec and water?
If there is any deposit left it can be used for rent arrears.  If your tenancy agreement said 4 weeks notice then you are going to have to accept the dates they gave you and charge 6 days as per the yearly calculation given earlier.  But normally what happens is the tenant pays rent until they leave they don't dictate that you take it from there deposit. 
If you are glad to see the back of them then you can use this as a learning curve and get yourself better organised for the next tenants, or use an agent. 

Comms69

mlz1413 said:

Hang in, the deposit is for damage first and foremost. So that should be used for the cost of removing the skip and putting right any damage.  If you have a signed inventory from when they moved in.  Then payment of any bills outstanding, have you checked the gas, elec and water?
If there is any deposit left it can be used for rent arrears.  If your tenancy agreement said 4 weeks notice then you are going to have to accept the dates they gave you and charge 6 days as per the yearly calculation given earlier.  But normally what happens is the tenant pays rent until they leave they don't dictate that you take it from there deposit. 
If you are glad to see the back of them then you can use this as a learning curve and get yourself better organised for the next tenants, or use an agent. 

The landlord has no right to do this. 

Socajam

I would not return any money until the skip is removed and any damage made good.
Once you return the money, they are under no obligation to remove the skip and repaid any damage.