No Gas Safety Certificate prior to signing tenancy agreement

michaelthomasbrennan

We are in the process of moving home and had an agreed date for this to happen.  We are all packed and our mover have taken all our belongings and will deliver them to our new address tomorrow.  The landlords boiler failed its gas safely test today and he is endeavouring to replace it and have it tested by tomorrow before we arrive to move in.  The agent is telling us that we cannot sign the contract and move in until the gas safety certificate is issued.  Is this true.  From what I have read we could sign the contract, move in as long as the landlord is in the process of changing the boiler and gaining a valid certificate.  Can we move in under these conditions

Michael

Comms69

There needs to be a valid GSC. If the boiler is condemned and disconnected, one can be issued i believe. But as it currently stands it cannot and therefore they are quite correct in not giving you a tenancy. 

warwicktate

Not too sure about the legal stance on this, but why would you want to move in without a valid gas safety certificate? This is the one thing that shows the boiler is operating safely. Without it, you have no idea about the condition of the boiler. And although the Landlord has stated he will have a new boiler fitted and tested in a day (pretty good that mind, took me a week to get mine sorted), there is no guarantee this is the case. The Landlord could quite easily fit a second hand boiler (or even worse, just leave it as is and tell you he'll get it done asap), and with that there is no guarantee of condition. 

In my opinion, you NEED the gas safety certificate BEFORE moving in, not for legal reasons, but for your own health and safety.

Robbo66

It was previously understood that if you weren't given a gas safety at point of move in then the landlord couldn't serve a section 21 however with the recent Court of Appeal ruling, Trecarrell v Rouncefield, this has now changed. It ruled that Section 21 notices are valid provided a Gas Safety Certificate is issued before the notice is given to the tenant, not before a tenant moves into a property. This does however give rise to two difficult questions which are left open by the judgment. The first is what the position is if the landlord has not done a gas safety check (and so does not have a gas safety certificate) for the period before the tenant went into occupation. How (if at all) can that be remedied?

The second is similar. What happens if the landlord fails to do the annual gas safety inspection so that there is no certificate to provide? This is probably less important. There is recognition in the judgment that the duty to do an annual safety inspection (reg.36(3)) is not a prescribed requirement for the purposes of s.21A, 1988 Act. There is, however, something rather unattractive about a landlord seeking possession in circumstances where he has unlawfully failed to do a check (and thus provide a certificate) and whether that amounts to (impermissibly) relying on your own wrongdoing.

https://www.landmarkchambers.co.uk/trecarrell-house-ltd-v-rouncefield-2020-ewca-civ/

macman

LL is quite sensibly covering themselves. You could move in, refuse access for GSC certification, and threaten to report LL for H&S breach (penalty: potentially unlimited fine and prison sentence). He also cannot evict you as the tenancy is not regularised. 
Yes, I know it's far-fetched, but I wouldn't chance it for the sake of a few day's missed rent.

greatcrested

On the date the tenancy starts, and if there is gas in the property, there must be valid gas safety certificate, or in the case of a new boiler, an installation certificate.

If there is not, the landlord can never (well at least for as long as that tenancy exists) serve a valid S21 Notice to evict the tenant. So it would be a foolhardy landlord who put himself in that position. See

Caridon Property Ltd v Shooltz, Central London County Court, 2 February 2018.

Robbo66

greatcrested said:

On the date the tenancy starts, and if there is gas in the property, there must be valid gas safety certificate, or in the case of a new boiler, an installation certificate.

If there is not, the landlord can never (well at least for as long as that tenancy exists) serve a valid S21 Notice to evict the tenant. So it would be a foolhardy landlord who put himself in that position. See

Caridon Property Ltd v Shooltz, Central London County Court, 2 February 2018.

The recent Appeal Court ruling earlier this year has over ruled the connection with Section 21  and gas safety certificate https://www.landmarkchambers.co.uk/trecarrell-house-ltd-v-rouncefield-2020-ewca-civ/  what it hasnt made clear is what happens if the gas safety hasn't been done prior to moving in, this still has to be tested in court, if rectified shortly after move in this would again be down to the individual judge to rule and again could be subject to appeal. 

Comms69

Robbo66 said:

greatcrested said:

On the date the tenancy starts, and if there is gas in the property, there must be valid gas safety certificate, or in the case of a new boiler, an installation certificate.

If there is not, the landlord can never (well at least for as long as that tenancy exists) serve a valid S21 Notice to evict the tenant. So it would be a foolhardy landlord who put himself in that position. See

Caridon Property Ltd v Shooltz, Central London County Court, 2 February 2018.

The recent Appeal Court ruling earlier this year has over ruled the connection with Section 21  and gas safety certificate https://www.landmarkchambers.co.uk/trecarrell-house-ltd-v-rouncefield-2020-ewca-civ/  what it hasnt made clear is what happens if the gas safety hasn't been done prior to moving in, this still has to be tested in court, if rectified shortly after move in this would again be down to the individual judge to rule and again could be subject to appeal. 

Also it seems like if the tenant simply changes the locks, the LL in theory could not enter the property to conduct a check prior to issuing a s.21.

macman

In essence, although it may inconvenience the incoming tenant, there is little benefit for the LL to allow entry, and potentially massive consequences if they do.

greatcrested

Robbo66 said:

greatcrested said:

On the date the tenancy starts, and if there is gas in the property, there must be valid gas safety certificate, or in the case of a new boiler, an installation certificate.

If there is not, the landlord can never (well at least for as long as that tenancy exists) serve a valid S21 Notice to evict the tenant. So it would be a foolhardy landlord who put himself in that position. See

Caridon Property Ltd v Shooltz, Central London County Court, 2 February 2018.

The recent Appeal Court ruling earlier this year has over ruled the connection with Section 21  and gas safety certificate https://www.landmarkchambers.co.uk/trecarrell-house-ltd-v-rouncefield-2020-ewca-civ/  what it hasnt made clear is what happens if the gas safety hasn't been done prior to moving in, this still has to be tested in court, if rectified shortly after move in this would again be down to the individual judge to rule and again could be subject to appeal. 

Many thanks for the update and link! I suspect G_M will need to update the stickie....

[Deleted User]

greatcrested said:

Robbo66 said:

greatcrested said:

On the date the tenancy starts, and if there is gas in the property, there must be valid gas safety certificate, or in the case of a new boiler, an installation certificate.

If there is not, the landlord can never (well at least for as long as that tenancy exists) serve a valid S21 Notice to evict the tenant. So it would be a foolhardy landlord who put himself in that position. See

Caridon Property Ltd v Shooltz, Central London County Court, 2 February 2018.

The recent Appeal Court ruling earlier this year has over ruled the connection with Section 21  and gas safety certificate https://www.landmarkchambers.co.uk/trecarrell-house-ltd-v-rouncefield-2020-ewca-civ/  what it hasnt made clear is what happens if the gas safety hasn't been done prior to moving in, this still has to be tested in court, if rectified shortly after move in this would again be down to the individual judge to rule and again could be subject to appeal. 

Many thanks for the update and link! I suspect G_M will need to update the stickie....

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