Would / will you send kids back to nursery / school?

maman

Spendless said:

maman said:

I can't understand the reasoning behind today's announcement. The social distancing measures for schools and colleges and nurseries are the least for any public setting. So we need to be safe at work, in the shops, in the pub or restaurant but in schools it doesn't matter. Children have been infected in Leicester. What are the priorities? What's the peculiar science that's guiding this? 🤔

@maman. Prophetic words. As much as the Government seems to like to blame hospitality and private dwellings for the spread of infection. There's no denying that the increases have come about since educational establishments all opened up all at once in the Autumn. I completely understand that for the Nurseries, Primary schools and maybe even the younger end of Secondary schools that presented an issue with some working parents. The older end could have certainly been looked at though. I've got a son at Uni. I lost count of the times I looked for guidance in the summer  about returning students. I was looking at see what was being proposed before we signed up to a year's rental agreement. I found nothing. They could have staggered the students in, had them take covid tests beforehand, required them to self isolate for 2 weeks before going in, put the courses they could on-line for the first term. Even SAGE saying we told the Government to put Uni courses online. They gave that advice on Monday 21st September, which for my son's and my Nephew's (and possibly many other) Universities was the start of Fresher's week. Too late telling them when they've already gone back! 

I think university students have been very badly treated. I know I'm a cynic but I'm convinced it's to do with all the rental contracts for the halls of residence and the fact that it's all the student fees (for minimal face to face teaching even in non Covid times) that fund research. I really hope the students in Manchester and elsewhere get somewhere with their rent strikes next term.

Now today, we have this testing fiasco planned for next term. School leaders have to continue with track and trace for all students and staff until the middle of next week (unless, of course, they happen to be at Eton or other independent school) then set themselves to planning to do mass testing from January 4th. That's with no advance notice, no training, no surplus staff, no spare space and while offering both face to face and online teaching, coming to terms with a changed exam syllabus yet to be announced, managing a Covid secure environment and the pastoral care of pupils, many of whom have been bereaved. You couldn't make it up!!

Apologies for the rant but it makes me so angry. 

Madmel

Maman, I agree with you completely.  I too am a teacher with 2 DDs at university.  Cambridge has handled testing really well.  DD1 & her household (8 en suite rooms sharing a kitchen) have been tested weekly.  Each week, 2 samples have been screened.  If they are negative, the household can continue in the new normal.  If one is positive, all the others in the household must self-isolate and all the other samples are checked.  Luckily that hasn't happened to her but a friend did catch COVID and is still suffering the fatigue several weeks on.

I am horrified by the latest pronouncements, in particular with their appalling and cynical timing.  On Thursdays, I teach in a local primary school.  My secondary, where I am based for 3 days per week, moved its last day from Friday to Thursday so we had a day's INSET on Friday.  Thursday was a half day with staff free to leave after lunch.  My colleagues had left for the day by the time this announcement came out.  My Headteacher was devastated - he has worked pretty much every day since after February half term.  I am really hacked off at having to teach y13 & y11 in person but having to do remote lessons for the other years.  Try teaching Music online.  It's hard enough to teach a kid over Zoom or Teams who is learning an instrument, motivated and keen to do well.  I have 32 year 8s in each class, not all of whom have instruments or music software.  We can listen to music but I would never do an hour of straight listening.  We can't compose or perform meaningfully.

Thanks Gavin Williamson.  After 2 terms of relentless adapting to various rules, trying my best to teach, nurture, reassure, cajole, comfort etc. I have run out of steam.  My 2 weeks off will now be punctuated by worrying about what and how I am going to teach in January.  If you think I am going to swab kids, I am handing in my notice forthwith.  That's 25.5 years of experience prepared to walk away because I can't take any more.  I love my schools, I love teaching children, I love my subject. But I despair at what the governments of the last 10 years have done to schools, education and the arts. Merry Christmas

[Deleted User]

My 14 year old (year 10) is in a special school as he has an EHCP due to autism and anxety.  I want him to attend school but safely.  The day starts off badly when he's collected in a taxi for school.  One adult and 7 kids in a 8 seater car.  Yes they are all wearing masks but you couldn't really ask for a better way to spread covid if one of the kids had it.  First two weeks back in September he definitely caught a stomach bug from someone who had stomach bug travelling in the same car. 

With increasing cases (and my area just gone into tier four) two weeks before they broke up, I decided it would be better to do remote learning and the school broke up early a few days later).  The system doesn't work perfectly, I always seem to be asking for missing lessons so definitely more work for me, but it has to be done. Early last week I was told there was a confirmed case of Covid in the school, so I thanked god for my decision.  Unfortunately I am high risk (diabetes and asthma) and it seems children do get the disease however much the government try to pretend they don't.  If I get it, with two special needs children (one is beyond school age), it would be awful (obviously its not good for anyone, that goes without saying).  There's no one else to look after them, just me, so they'd probably have to go into care if I went into hospital, which is quite likely if I caught it. And with a high proportion of the kids getting taxis into school, I think it would spread like wildfire.  I did query this with the transport department, they just said they were following regulations but the windows aren't even kept open.  Even with masks the children are all breathing the same air in close quarters.  I suspect there are very few regulations to cover this area in reality.  Yes I have written to my MP..

One good thing.  My son is very thin, and he's actually putting on weight.  He doesn't eat while at school (even if I give him sandwiches), has a very rigid small list of things he will eat, is growing like a beansprout but has actually put on 3kg this week. I think overall its better for him to go into school than not, but as long as he's getting the assigned work done, which he is, I can see he's much much more relaxed. The school do try, but there's so much that overwhelms him they miss, that he isn't subject to now.  But once its safe, he will be going back.  

Kim_kim

thorsoak said:

May I ask - how many parents who are worried about their children returning to school in September are preparing to go on holiday during this summer?   And how many are now going "out out"?   

Myself & my daughter and her family have not been on holiday since November 2019.  I don’t expect we will be going on any holidays in 2021 either. 

Durham_girl_4

Yes, mine are going back

maman

All teachers representatives from Head teachers to support staff and SAGE say it's not safe to reopen schools. That's just closing the buildings (to all but vulnerable and key workers) not stopping learning. I know many think teachers are being lazy but I'm not aware of other workers in situations without social distancing or PPE. That's not even expected in the NHS. It's so illogical to use data to put huge parts of the country into Tier 4 but not to apply the same to schools. I can't think of any reason to resist lockdown in England other than childcare and political posturing. Children can catch up with missed schooling but not family that die as a result of foot dragging . We've not even reached the post Christmas peak yet. Schools will do their best but this new variant is hugely contagious. ☹️

Spendless

I keep having a look to see what if any news there is. I know many parts of the country are Tier4, we aren't. We're still Tier3. Daughter is at college somewhere just gone into Tier3 from 2. So would any restrictions still apply re schools and what about the Scilly Isles, in Tier1. I'm guessing there's at least a school there? 

Vikipollard

If the regression in children's learning/behaviour during the first lockdown is as reported (not using knives and forks etc, falling behind with reading/writing/maths), then they absolutely should be in school.  The Schools' Inspector has pretty much said as much today.  Primary schools operate a bubbled environment.  Secondary schools should all be online. 

The army were deployed with less than 24 hours' notice to Kent to deal with the testing of lorry drivers.  They did not have the opportunity to spend the one day of relaxation in restrictions with their wider families.  They also had no training, but did not have a fortnight's notice of the expectation.  They managed.

Before the sabre rattlers start, consider this.  Those same children will be allowed to play out with their friends/in whatever bubble they have outside school.  Secondary age children do not all stay at home all the time, and do mix with others in groups - whatever their parents may believe.  Transmission will still continue.  Unless everyone thinks that, ten months on, those same people/children who don't socially distance now will miraculously behave differently just because they are not in school.

But also consider this.  At the start of the next academic year (Sept 2021), when we all hope some degree of normality has returned, the fact that many children have fallen way behind is a consequence of taking them out of school.  I suspect the blame will be levelled anywhere but there.

For the record, I work in the Emergency Services, have worked continually throughout this awful time.  I have two sons who are police officers, facing violence and confrontation, and the worst of humanity who think it's okay to cough and spit in your face, all the time.  If anyone thinks that just because they wear a face mask that means their job is safe, then you are sadly misguided.  But the public still expect that they're there every day - and they are.  Pretty much the same can be said for any of the emergency services, I would add, so although I have some sympathy with the teaching profession (particularly secondary, where classes constantly change), I believe there are degrees of risk.

maman

Vikipollard said:

If the regression in children's learning/behaviour during the first lockdown is as reported (not using knives and forks etc, falling behind with reading/writing/maths), then they absolutely should be in school.  The Schools' Inspector has pretty much said as much today.  Primary schools operate a bubbled environment.  Secondary schools should all be online. 

The army were deployed with less than 24 hours' notice to Kent to deal with the testing of lorry drivers.  They did not have the opportunity to spend the one day of relaxation in restrictions with their wider families.  They also had no training, but did not have a fortnight's notice of the expectation.  They managed.

Before the sabre rattlers start, consider this.  Those same children will be allowed to play out with their friends/in whatever bubble they have outside school.  Secondary age children do not all stay at home all the time, and do mix with others in groups - whatever their parents may believe.  Transmission will still continue.  Unless everyone thinks that, ten months on, those same people/children who don't socially distance now will miraculously behave differently just because they are not in school.

But also consider this.  At the start of the next academic year (Sept 2021), when we all hope some degree of normality has returned, the fact that many children have fallen way behind is a consequence of taking them out of school.  I suspect the blame will be levelled anywhere but there.

For the record, I work in the Emergency Services, have worked continually throughout this awful time.  I have two sons who are police officers, facing violence and confrontation, and the worst of humanity who think it's okay to cough and spit in your face, all the time.  If anyone thinks that just because they wear a face mask that means their job is safe, then you are sadly misguided.  But the public still expect that they're there every day - and they are.  Pretty much the same can be said for any of the emergency services, I would add, so although I have some sympathy with the teaching profession (particularly secondary, where classes constantly change), I believe there are degrees of risk.

I'm not even going to start trying to unpick all the misinformation you seem to have about how things operate in schools. But it would seem in the sections I've highlighted that it  appears that schools are expected to be responsible for teaching children how to eat properly and keeping them safe outside school. Who's children are they??☹

Vikipollard

maman said:

Vikipollard said:

If the regression in children's learning/behaviour during the first lockdown is as reported (not using knives and forks etc, falling behind with reading/writing/maths), then they absolutely should be in school.  The Schools' Inspector has pretty much said as much today.  Primary schools operate a bubbled environment.  Secondary schools should all be online. 

The army were deployed with less than 24 hours' notice to Kent to deal with the testing of lorry drivers.  They did not have the opportunity to spend the one day of relaxation in restrictions with their wider families.  They also had no training, but did not have a fortnight's notice of the expectation.  They managed.

Before the sabre rattlers start, consider this.  Those same children will be allowed to play out with their friends/in whatever bubble they have outside school.  Secondary age children do not all stay at home all the time, and do mix with others in groups - whatever their parents may believe.  Transmission will still continue.  Unless everyone thinks that, ten months on, those same people/children who don't socially distance now will miraculously behave differently just because they are not in school.

But also consider this.  At the start of the next academic year (Sept 2021), when we all hope some degree of normality has returned, the fact that many children have fallen way behind is a consequence of taking them out of school.  I suspect the blame will be levelled anywhere but there.

For the record, I work in the Emergency Services, have worked continually throughout this awful time.  I have two sons who are police officers, facing violence and confrontation, and the worst of humanity who think it's okay to cough and spit in your face, all the time.  If anyone thinks that just because they wear a face mask that means their job is safe, then you are sadly misguided.  But the public still expect that they're there every day - and they are.  Pretty much the same can be said for any of the emergency services, I would add, so although I have some sympathy with the teaching profession (particularly secondary, where classes constantly change), I believe there are degrees of risk.

I'm not even going to start trying to unpick all the misinformation you seem to have about how things operate in schools. But it would seem in the sections I've highlighted that it  appears that schools are expected to be responsible for teaching children how to eat properly and keeping them safe outside school. Who's children are they??☹

It never was teachers' responsibility, but is widely quoted in the media that schools noted regression, including with eating skills.  You're missing the point that children will meet up with others outside school whether they are attending school or not, so closing schools will not stop the spread; it will simply move it.   Then there will be the catastrophic impact on children's wellbeing and education and somehow it will all be someone else's fault.  But please, do point out the misinformation you allude to in my post as, from my granddaughter's mainstream primary school, they operate in bubbles with a focus on good hand hygiene and a thorough check that children are not symptomatic on entry.  

Out of curiosity, why do teachers not use PPE - at the very least, clear visors?  Other workplaces have this as mandatory, so this is a genuine question.