House bought - Wrong boiler document passed over after completion.

Fran_2012

Hi guys... Any advice/info would be appreciated on this post! So last April (2019) I bought my first house. Leading up to the completion my solicitor told me they were waiting on the Gas safety regs installation certificate and a service to be provided. The solicitor said if the gas safety/building regs document for the boiler installation wasn’t provided then a self cert would be provided instead. (When I went to view it, it was pointed out it was a new Worcester boiler and was installed in 2016)

Anyway as time went on, the solicitor dealing with my case went on holiday and it was took over by someone else AS contracts were exchanged and completion occurred. 

Long story short I received my keys and all the info/paper/legal docs needed to be received.

Anyway about a month after I moved in I was enquiring about changing the gas fire that was installed and the gas safety engineer mentioned that the pipes the boiler had been installed may need updating. He said with the current pipes the house may be under gassed and this would cause a problem as there is a gas cooker/gas fire/ plus running water etc. He asked if I had any paperwork for the boiler.


When I looked in the documentation checklist there was a specific reference to “Has the boiler been installed after .... if so is there a gas safety installation certificate with building regs, or if not a self certificate” The boxes next to it we’re clearly marked “yes” and “enclosed”.

Anyway when I went to check the documents were not enclosed.
i emailed the solicitor to ask for them and she forwarded them all on... When I have looked the installation gas safety cert is for the wrong boiler! She’s given me a certificate for a dyson boiler in 2009 when mine is a Worcester! There is no self cert. there is a service certificate from 2 months before the house sold which states everything is safe and in order.

Howecer since I’ve moved in I’ve had another service and they state that the pipes need updating ASAP as the house is severely under gassed! (Due to boiler being fitted to the old pipes). I’ve had two opinions now and both have said that boiler should NeVER have been installed to those pipes in the first place... the pipes should have been updated with the boiler! 

Do I have some kind of case against the solicitor? Are they in breach of contract for letting the house sale go ahead  WITHOuT the correct boiler installation cert/self cert?

If Id have known about this during the house sale, I could have got someone in as a second opinion who would have highlighted it there and then! The boiler is one of the main Things people warned me about when buying a house, so when the solicitor claimed everything was in order and “enclosed” I didn’t think to check! (First time buyer nativity... all the paperwork just sat in a drawer for a few months).

FYI...I changed from a gas fire to an electric for peace of mind and because I was redecorating the living room. Obviously this is at a cost... I am also looking at at least £800 to update the gas pipes and that’s without patching up/decoration cost.

any advice is appreciated... apologies if it’s long winded and not quite clear.

pinkteapot

The solicitor couldn't possibly have known the boiler is a Worcester, unless you told them. 

They were expecting a boiler cert, and got a boiler cert. It's down to you to check it matches up to what you saw at the house I'm afraid.

Petriix

£800 to replace a gas pipe!? How long is it? We paid £250 total to have a 7m run of gas pipe installed and a new gas cooker hooked up (as well as various bits of plumbing work). Sounds like you're being conned. Maybe get a couple of other quotes.

Grumpy_chap

You say the boiler is one of the main things people warned you about, but also that you did not check.

Have you had the boiler serviced since you moved in?  If not, it is due a service after 12 months, so do that first ( with a different company).  If they do a good job, you could ask this company about the gas fire.

If you have a boiler, so assume central heating, do you actually need the gas fire (other than for visual effects)?  If not, what about an electric fire here instead?

RelievedSheff

I'm afraid it was up to you to check the paperwork tied up with what was installed in the house. How could the solicitor possible know what boiler was installed in the property?

After 12 months you will have very little if any come back on this. Welcome to the world of home ownership. It costs money to keep on top of the routine maintenance of a property and as the home owner it is your responsibility to keep on top of the maintenance and paperwork.

greatcrested

Check with Worcester tosee if the boiler is registered there under warranty. May well be a 5 year warranty, but dependant on proper installation cert (and annua lservices).

Check with GasSafe to see if there's anything registered there.

Check with the Local  Authority to see if it's registered under Buiding Regs.

eddddy

Fran_2012 said:

When I looked in the documentation checklist there was a specific reference to “Has the boiler been installed after .... if so is there a gas safety installation certificate with building regs, or if not a self certificate” The boxes next to it we’re clearly marked “yes” and “enclosed”.

In general, if the seller stated on the SPIF that there was an installation certificate, but there wasn't - you might have scope for action against the seller for misrepresentation. But it all sounds a bit messy.

One approach would be to ask your conveyancing solicitor to write a letter saying something like

"the seller misrepresented that there was a valid installation certificate for the boiler at the property, but provided an installation certificate for a different boiler....  the resulting costs are £800... Please pay the £800 immediately, to avoid a court claim."

The solicitor is likely to charge you for writing this letter - a few years back my solicitor was quoting £60+vat to write letters like this.

However, it's quite likely that you won't get a reply. So you'd need to decide whether to persue it - probably by making an online court claim.

AdrianC

...and the vendor says "Yes, it was definitely in the documentation I forwarded. The buyer didn't raise an issue at the time, so they must have lost it since purchase..."

jimbog

£800 to change the pipes to 22mm? When my bolier was installed it was around £90

eddddy

AdrianC said:

...and the vendor says "Yes, it was definitely in the documentation I forwarded. The buyer didn't raise an issue at the time, so they must have lost it since purchase..."

In which case, the seller's solicitor (or the seller) will be able to provide a copy, and the matter will be settled.

But on the broader question - all civil court claims are decided on the balance of probabilities.

• The OP would put forward their evidence of misrepresentation (including that the wrong certificate was provided by the seller)
• The seller would put forward their evidence that no misrepresentation occurred (including that the correct certificate was provided by the seller)

The court would decide which version is most likely to be true, and make a decision accordingly.

Jeepers_Creepers

It seems to me as tho' this remains a pretty clear-cut case - the vendor stated that the necessary documents were included with the property information form, but the ones they provided were not the correct ones. I can't see how the seller could now claim, for example, that the buyer must have lost the docs, because the provided docs do actually exist - the buyer's solicitor has them - but they are simply the wrong docs.

I would agree that the buyer's solicitor is not liable for this - it's not their job to check the boiler make against what's actually fitted in the house - but I would suggest that the seller is liable, and that action can be taken against them; it states this clearly in the intro to the PIF; "If you give incorrect or incomplete information to the buyer (on this form or otherwise in writing or in conversation, whether through your estate agent or solicitor or directly to the buyer), the buyer may make a claim for compensation against you or refuse to complete the purchase."

Where it could (almost certainly will...) become murky, tho', is with the service cert also provided by the seller; "...there is a service certificate from 2 months before the house sold which states everything is safe and in order." I presume this cert shows the boiler make as Worcester?  In which case I suspect you are stuffed, Fran.

It's also quite possible that the pipe size is borderline, and the Worcester's installer made a judgement that he could get away with it - ie the measured pressure drop at the boiler was just a teeny weeny bit lower than spec'd, but he knew from years of experience that it would, in practical terms, be 'fine'. Later GasSafes might be sticklers for specs, and many of them do love to find fault in others... (come on - it's true! :-)  )

What route would the gas pipe take through your house, Fran? How much can be run outside, and how much disruption would be caused internally? As said by others, £800 does seem a bit steep, but then again it could be a torturous and disruptive route - we don't know. 

Now you've decided to go electric for your fire, does that mean that the boiler and cooker are now happy enough with their supply?

Bottom line, you have been wrong done by (no installation cert, and most likely no extended warranty from Worcester either - combis often come with a 10 year warranty for their exchangers, for example), but whether you can claim, I dunno. A few things you can consider - one is the solicitor's letter as suggested above; if they don't cough up or agree a compromise sum, this can be followed up with a small claims (MoneyClaimonline) after you've had the pipe updated. Or, check your household insurance - does it include Legal Protection? If so, it'll take the place of your solicitor - provided they feel it's a winner. Even if you don't have LP, they often have a legal advice line to call.