Subsidence insurance refusal

shirlh1

We bought our end terrace house in October 2001.  A few years of being in the house we notice cracks appearing in the single storey extension to the side of the house.  We had a builder out to look at this and he advised it was just settlement.  We thought nothing more of it and we covered the cracks.

however the cracks keep appearing and getting bigger.  We had the insurance company out who have advised that the foundations have been built on soft made ground which is man made. The foundations for the extensions the insurance company have advised have only been dug to 0.67mt depth however the foundations for the main house are 1.14mt and therefore the foundations are inadequate and won’t cover the repairs. 

We contacted building control who have advised that the foundations have been signed off at being dug to a depth of 1.14mt the same as the house.

We have no way of telling ourselves who is telling the correct information or how we even go about finding this out.

we have been quoted £7500 for resin injection which needless to say we don’t have the money for but it needs to be done.  But where do we stand do we fight it with the insurance company or do our own investigation.

if we investigate ourselves who would we get out to do the work and how would we fight the decision. 

All help would be appreciated we are at a complete loss.

tonyh66

the only way to find out is to dig down to the extension foundations, measure the depth and see what it is, dunno if the council would be liable if they signed off an inadequate foundation? someone with more knowledge will advise.

Le_Kirk

If the insurance company have declined your application, they must have carried out proper research; can you see where they dug down to measure the depth of the foundation and the underlying infrastructure?  That surely would save anybody having to dig another test pit.

shirlh1

tonyh66 said:

the only way to find out is to dig down to the extension foundations, measure the depth and see what it is, dunno if the council would be liable if they signed off an inadequate foundation? someone with more knowledge will advise.

See that is the problem we are now left with the issue and the extension was built prior to our purchase and we are being told that we can’t claim due to poor workmanship and that we can really only claim against the builder or building control within 6years.  Doesn’t seem to be enough help around for situations like this 

shirlh1

Le_Kirk said:

If the insurance company have declined your application, they must have carried out proper research; can you see where they dug down to measure the depth of the foundation and the underlying infrastructure?  That surely would save anybody having to dig another test pit.

Where the insurance company have dug was through the concrete and now that they have cut through it and tried to seal it up again has left the concrete now starting to crack again with the issue.

chrisw

Unfortunately I can't see how you can fight the insurance company given the facts above. They aren't insuring you against poor workmanship. If a garage fitted a faulty new engine to your car you wouldn't expect the insurance to pay out.

As you've now been there 20 years I can't think of how you could get recourse through any other means. I think you'll end up having to pay yourselves somehow. it doesn't seem to be imminently in danger of collapse which may give you some time to save up the money.

shirlh1

chrisw said:

Unfortunately I can't see how you can fight the insurance company given the facts above. They aren't insuring you against poor workmanship. If a garage fitted a faulty new engine to your car you wouldn't expect the insurance to pay out.

As you've now been there 20 years I can't think of how you could get recourse through any other means. I think you'll end up having to pay yourselves somehow. it doesn't seem to be imminently in danger of collapse which may give you some time to save up the money.

No I wouldn’t expect that with something that has been fitted thanks.  It was more the fact that the building control records are stating the foundations were dug down to the 1.14mt the same as the house, but the insurance company are saying they are basically half of the depth.  

I don’t expect to get anything done for nothing but we are stuck in the middle when we bought the house after the extension was built and are getting conflicting information just looking advice.

weeg

Whoever signed off on the extension foundations is at fault - they didn't confirm that was was built matched what was specified.
If claims are limited to 6 years for building control, then I'm afraid you are stuck holding the ball.
FWIW, I think you should be able to get it fixed for less than £7500. I'd recommend getting someone to look at excavating and backfilling with mass concrete on a 'hit and miss' basis down to the level of the house founds, which should stop the cracks getting worse, then give it a few months to settle and repair the cracks.

Annemos

I am not an expert, but I do have my own Subsidence case.
As far as I can make out, this might be the case.
(I looked at Ombudsman's cases in the past). 
If the main part of the building had subsided, then the Insurance Company has to also repair the extension too, if you have something like this in your insurance policy....
-Garden walls are covered for subsidence if the main building has also subsided.-

This is because the extension walls would then be treated like any other garden wall. 
So if the rest of the main building has not subsided, then you may have a problem here. 
Have you looked at the examples Helifix give? They have a micro piling system to lift things up. They have several examples on their website. 

https://www.helifix.co.uk/case-studies

https://www.helifix.co.uk/case-studies/social-housing-gets-strong-support-from-helifix-micro-piles/
https://www.helifix.co.uk/case-studies/hartley-close-properties-get-support-from-helifix/
Good luck with this issue. 

shirlh1

weeg said:

Whoever signed off on the extension foundations is at fault - they didn't confirm that was was built matched what was specified.
If claims are limited to 6 years for building control, then I'm afraid you are stuck holding the ball.
FWIW, I think you should be able to get it fixed for less than £7500. I'd recommend getting someone to look at excavating and backfilling with mass concrete on a 'hit and miss' basis down to the level of the house founds, which should stop the cracks getting worse, then give it a few months to settle and repair the cracks.

Thank you for your help will have a look into this as I want to ensure we are getting the right support and information even if we are having to pay form it ourselves which is looking more and more likely. 

shirlh1

Annemos said:

I am not an expert, but I do have my own Subsidence case.
As far as I can make out, this might be the case.
(I looked at Ombudsman's cases in the past). 
If the main part of the building had subsided, then the Insurance Company has to also repair the extension too, if you have something like this in your insurance policy....
-Garden walls are covered for subsidence if the main building has also subsided.-

This is because the extension walls would then be treated like any other garden wall. 
So if the rest of the main building has not subsided, then you may have a problem here. 
Have you looked at the examples Helifix give? They have a micro piling system to lift things up. They have several examples on their website. 

https://www.helifix.co.uk/case-studies

https://www.helifix.co.uk/case-studies/social-housing-gets-strong-support-from-helifix-micro-piles/
https://www.helifix.co.uk/case-studies/hartley-close-properties-get-support-from-helifix/
Good luck with this issue. 

Thank you for your help will have a look into this as I want to ensure we are getting the right support and information even if we are having to pay form it ourselves which is looking more and more likely.