12 year council tax arrears after a death

Missy_C

Hi @CIS, there will be an email sent this evening or tomorrow asking for all original paperwork relating to this. So far the council have only provided reissued copies dated June 2020 of 2 of the bills, with no original date of issue on them. Are those acceptable or is he right in asking for copies of the original bills? I have a feeling the council had hoped someone would panic and just pay up.

I was told informally by a solicitor that the sum of money owed should be set aside in case a liability order was issued. If there have been any liability orders, is there a time limit on how long they have to action them or try and collect via bailiffs? There has been no mention of any liability orders so far, just an email listing the amounts owed and the previously mentioned copies of 2 of the bills. 

sharpe106

I think putting the money to one side in case is a good idea. A lot easier to share it out later then trying to reclaiming every bodies share. 

CIS

I was told informally by a solicitor that the sum of money owed should be set aside in case a liability order was issued. If there have been any liability orders, is there a time limit on how long they have to action them or try and collect via bailiffs? There has been no mention of any liability orders so far, just an email listing the amounts owed and the previously mentioned copies of 2 of the bills.

The hardest part is trying to make sure any liability is correct.

Once a liability order is granted then they remain indefinitely (or 20 years in Scotland). However, the informal advice you got shows where knowing the system is essential - they don't need a liability order to claim against an estate.

If you're using a solicitor for council tax make very certain they know what they are doing - I hate to say it but I see quite a few errors by solicitors who try and pick up council tax issues without actually knowing the legislation. They make the fatal assumption that it's not complicated and fail to consider it's a specialist area in it's own right (I know of two people in the country who work either entirely within or mostly within council tax issues as a dedicated area of work).

CIS

So far the council have only provided reissued copies dated June 2020 of 2 of the bills, with no original date of issue on them.

There will almost certainly be no original bills held - anything that's generated will be done so electronically & just showing the relevant details. This is also assuming that the demand notices were issued historically, the charge can be adjusted and corrected at any point in time and a revised demand notice issued (it is always just a work in progress rather than a finality).

This is why the situation gets complicated very fast if you're trying to make sense of it and the legislation they work under.

I have a feeling the council had hoped someone would panic and just pay up.

They've better things to do than that - they'll issue the demands as required in law.

Missy_C

@CIS The solicitor I spoke to couldn't properly/officially advise me anyway. We're in N.Ireland and the property the council tax relates to is in London so out of the solicitors jurisdiction. 

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what paperwork the council provide. It's just floored us how the council have gone about it and not really done anything when his mother was alive. Then again, if his mum has just paid the council tax.....

Thank you @CIS and everyone else. I'm sure I'll be back with an update at some point! 

CIS

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what paperwork the council provide. It's just floored us how the council have gone about it and not really done anything when his mother was alive. Then again, if his mum has just paid the council tax.....

It's always great when you get stuck in to a problem that was started by someone else ! (oddly, last year I had a rash of clients from Ireland and Northern Ireland, for some reason).

It should be a process which you can manage yourself but just keep the awareness of when you might need to step back and get some help or take some time to think about things (don't always assume the council are always correct in what they say or that council tax legislation is straight forward).

tlc678910

I wonder if the problem is that your partners mum was on benefits and claimed council tax benefit - so no Council tax to pay, but once your partner was living there (as an adult) he should have declared he lived there and paid the council tax,  unless he was also exempt when he would have had to declare his exemption or claim council tax benefit. 

CIS

tlc678910 said:

I wonder if the problem is that your partners mum was on benefits and claimed council tax benefit - so no Council tax to pay, but once your partner was living there (as an adult) he should have declared he lived there and paid the council tax,  unless he was also exempt when he would have had to declare his exemption or claim council tax benefit. 

He would never have been able to claim council tax reduction (which replaced council tax benefit) as he did not have any council tax liability of his own for the property. He did not have an interest which would make him liable as he was not a joint owner or tenant.

Missy_C

Quick update on this. The council were emailed to ask for copies of the bills, any copies of letters relating to demands for council tax, a statement of account or anything really relating to it that would have been sent. The reply was less than helpful:

The council 'do not keep copies of the notices before issuing'. It was also added that 'it would seem financially incompetent to refund a payment made when there is a large amount of arrears left to pay. As a department, we need to be seen to be protecting the councils purse.' (Nothing was mentioned in the most recent email we sent about the refund that the council said on the phone on two separate occasions was due but are now refusing to pay. We've given up thinking they will pay that back).

Seems we're back to square one now as we still only have reissued copies of 2 of the 4 bills and a list of what is apparently owed that was typed in an email from a revenue officer (really don't think anything should be paid on the say so of a rough list typed by someone in an email). What do we do now that the council are seemingly being so uncooperative? 

CIS

Seems we're back to square one now as we still only have reissued copies of 2 of the 4 bills and a list of what is apparently owed that was typed in an email from a revenue officer (really don't think anything should be paid on the say so of a rough list typed by someone in an email). What do we do now that the council are seemingly being so uncooperative? 

There are a few options but it depends on the exact specifics of what is happening and what needs to be challenged - it's going to rapidly get in to points of legislation and potentially the VT and Ombudsman. In my professional opinion, it needs looked at properly and carefully with reference to the council tax side.