12 year council tax arrears after a death

Missy_C

Hi, this is a bit of a long one so please bear with me,

My boyfriend's mum died suddenly at the end of last year and willed everything to him. (well, she had very little money but owned her home outright). Probate is currently pending and council were informed of her death soon after it happened. BF gave his details as the executor. The council said there was a remaining balance to be paid for 2019/20 so he paid it immediately and that was fine. He was then told that as the house was unoccupied and still in probate that he was exempt for six months and due a refund. 

It was only when this refund was confirmed did two separate bills arrive in the post, demanding payment for council tax owed in 2002/03 & 2008/09. He called the council to query and was told that as he was a minor in 2002/03 and not even living in the property at the time that he would not have to pay it and he could still have the refund for 2019/20. There was no paperwork for these old bills in his mother's possessions and he was unaware of them even chasing/demanding the money (she was on benefits due to being very ill). He told the council via a phone call and follow up email that as they only mentioned these bills after he was due a refund and due to how old they were that he would not be paying them. He later received a text from the council simply saying 'I suggest you consult a solicitor in relation to this matter', no name, nothing. He complained about the text via a phone call and email. The person he spoke to was very apologetic, reiterated that he didn't have to pay 2002/03 and said the 2008/09 bill would be passed to the 'back office' but added that he shouldn't have been sent it and to follow up in an email stating that he would like the refund and for it not to be used to pay off the 08/09 debt. 

Today a further email came saying that he cannot have the refund and still owes the debt from 2002/03 and 2008/09 but now further debts from 2009/10 & 2010/11. These total over £1600 so not a small amount. They claim the statue barred defence 'isn't  available because these amounts were originally billed back when the amounts were due' and 'There are rules on the issue of the first bill for debts going back more than 7 years - this is called statue barred'. (I thought it was 6 years in England). My BF has no recollection of the council chasing his mum for any of this money over the past 10 years (he returned to living in the property when he had finished boarding school which would have been around 2008), never saw any letters demanding payment or anything else. Surely they'd have had her in up in court / sanctioned her benefits / sent bailiffs round before now?

Are the council just chancing their arm trying to get these debts back? Any advice gratefully received. Thanks for reading! 

Fatsdom

This is without a doubt one for our resident council tax expert CIS to answer. I'll look forward to his comments with enormous interest. 

ryanm8655

Was his mum on benefits the whole time? I assume not given he was in boarding school? But if she was then surely this would’ve been covered by council tax benefit...

In my experience council tax departments aren’t the most competent. I had bailiffs knock on my door for an unpaid council tax bill a while back. I paid by DD but had £1.78 outstanding as they’d miscalculated when I moved. I moved to a flat within the same council area and called to update my address etc. Yet they claimed they couldn’t find me... In their defence they apologised and admitted the error, the bailiffs were called off and I paid the £1.78.

Sure @CIS will be along shortly.

Missy_C

@ryanm8655 His mum was on benefits for as long as he can remember (she was also a single parent). He was under the guardianship of his aunt and uncle who paid for him to go to boarding school due to other issues at home.

This council just seems to be totally incompetent and doesn't seem to know exactly what is owed. To send bailiffs round for £1.78 is ridiculous! I would almost say I can't believe it but I can.

ryanm8655

Missy_C said:

@ryanm8655 His mum was on benefits for as long as he can remember (she was also a single parent). He was under the guardianship of his aunt and uncle who paid for him to go to boarding school due to other issues at home.

This council just seems to be totally incompetent and doesn't seem to know exactly what is owed. To send bailiffs round for £1.78 is ridiculous! I would almost say I can't believe it but I can.

In that case I’d be surprised if anything is owed...she would have been entitled to housing and council tax benefit...Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve made an error.

tealady

Hi
It might be worth contacting the Councillor for the ward.
In my experience that tends to get things sorted more quickly.
If you dont know the Councillor, then just ring the Council

HTH

Galloglass

If you don't know the Councillor, then just ring the Council

Or check this site using your postcode
https://www.writetothem.com/

fatbelly

Just a couple of comments - your boyfriend is dealing with this as executor. He is only liable in that capacity (hope that makes sense) so how old he was in 2002 doesn't matter.

It is always a good idea to delay payments out of an estate - make creditors wait until the full picture is known - and I guess he has now leaned that lesson. For example if a larger debt had come out of the woodwork, then he might only be able to make a percentage payment to creditors. So paying the council what they immediately asked for was wrong.

The 2019/20 bill should have deductions due to an  exemption - that is correct.

The Limitation Act does not apply to Council Tax but there is equivalent legislation that requires a council to get a liability order within 6 years. Most do this within months of the non-payment so it's rarely an issue However it does need to be checked and  sp specialist help would be useful as the council are trying to claim various amounts from various earlier years.

I've pm'd CIS

CIS

I'll pop back later today when I get home and take a look.

Missy_C

Hi @fatbelly. Yes that makes sense. Thought it was worth mentioning as the council seemed quite happy to write off the 2002/03 bill when he mentioned he was 13 at the time and they asked for a copy of his passport to prove his age.

I think he panicked a bit when the council sent a final demand for payment for 2019/20. I'm not sure but I think his mum had made payments by direct debit and they were unable to take the payment. The odd thing was that there was no mention of the arrears when he told them the circumstances, and even now I doubt that we have the full picture cause the council keep adding to what is apparently owed. There were only copies of 2 old bills forwarded and he's going to ask for copies of all original paperwork, as the two old bills that arrived had been dated June 2020. No date of the original bills on them. 

CIS

Missy_C said:

Hi, this is a bit of a long one so please bear with me,

My boyfriend's mum died suddenly at the end of last year and willed everything to him. (well, she had very little money but owned her home outright). Probate is currently pending and council were informed of her death soon after it happened. BF gave his details as the executor. The council said there was a remaining balance to be paid for 2019/20 so he paid it immediately and that was fine. He was then told that as the house was unoccupied and still in probate that he was exempt for six months and due a refund. 

It was only when this refund was confirmed did two separate bills arrive in the post, demanding payment for council tax owed in 2002/03 & 2008/09. He called the council to query and was told that as he was a minor in 2002/03 and not even living in the property at the time that he would not have to pay it and he could still have the refund for 2019/20. There was no paperwork for these old bills in his mother's possessions and he was unaware of them even chasing/demanding the money (she was on benefits due to being very ill). He told the council via a phone call and follow up email that as they only mentioned these bills after he was due a refund and due to how old they were that he would not be paying them. He later received a text from the council simply saying 'I suggest you consult a solicitor in relation to this matter', no name, nothing. He complained about the text via a phone call and email. The person he spoke to was very apologetic, reiterated that he didn't have to pay 2002/03 and said the 2008/09 bill would be passed to the 'back office' but added that he shouldn't have been sent it and to follow up in an email stating that he would like the refund and for it not to be used to pay off the 08/09 debt. 

Today a further email came saying that he cannot have the refund and still owes the debt from 2002/03 and 2008/09 but now further debts from 2009/10 & 2010/11. These total over £1600 so not a small amount. They claim the statue barred defence 'isn't  available because these amounts were originally billed back when the amounts were due' and 'There are rules on the issue of the first bill for debts going back more than 7 years - this is called statue barred'. (I thought it was 6 years in England). My BF has no recollection of the council chasing his mum for any of this money over the past 10 years (he returned to living in the property when he had finished boarding school which would have been around 2008), never saw any letters demanding payment or anything else. Surely they'd have had her in up in court / sanctioned her benefits / sent bailiffs round before now?

Are the council just chancing their arm trying to get these debts back? Any advice gratefully received. Thanks for reading! 

This is potentially a difficult matter - if I was dealing with it for a client I'd want to see all of the council bills before even starting to work out what the issue was as it can be, technically, quite complicated to sort out.

They are correct in that the Limitation Act 1980 does not impart a 6 year limit on council tax collection - there is an inbuilt time limit of 6 years under regulation 43 but it only applies to specific situations. (You're the second case in a week where I've seen a similar situation regarding backdating and whether or not the council can recover it - they seem to be starting to move again).