HP Contract dispute with VW

DrEskimo

Grumpy_chap said:

Thank you for explaining OP.  I think I now understand what has happened, but the why is very confusing in what we can all acknowledge is a very exceptional case.  As I understand it:

• You were offered a VW Polo XYZ 75 bhp car in return for £A deposit plus 48 months at £B per month plus £6k balloon payment.
• There was some delay and frustration, but you were provided with the VW Polo XYZ 75 bhp car
• You made payments of the £A deposit plus 48 months at £B per month
• When you reached the end of the 48-months and the balloon payment of £6k was due (or return the car), you noticed a discrepancy in the paperwork, but that was only really some incorrectly entered numbers which are of no consequence in the daily ownership or use of the vehicle.
• There is some tale about the incorrect car, and the lower-powered car given to an old lady etc. etc. None of which is verified and unsure why VW would share that information if, indeed, it was fraud.  
• If there was such a fraud, the victim is the little old lady, and she is one the one who should be compensated.  Even then, her loss is not £6k but the marginal difference in purchase price between the 75 bhp car she paid for and the 60 bhp car she apparently received.  A difference of around £1k, not £6k.
• I assume that if the FOS became aware of such a fraud event, they would ensure that the victim of the fraud was appropriately compensated for the loss they suffered or could have suffered.
• If the tale is correct, and the fraud all happened as described, you still suffered no loss.  For all intents and purposes, the incorrect numbers on the paperwork were only an admin error in so far as there is any effect upon yourself, yet you are now "up" by £6k as you have not made the balloon payment.  Why would the ombudsman award you £6k, but not address the issue for the little old lady and leave VW £6k down?
• Still not sure what happened to the car at the end of the 4-year deal while this year-long process took place.

Was there actually something else in the process that the ombudsman found and made the decision against?  

The OP has kept the car and no longer has any outstanding debt (the £6k final payment). Given this finance was technically on the other ladies car, she will not be liable for it either.

In essence the OP got £6k for free, but we have no idea what discount the OP originally got on the car. If they overpaid then they are not much better off. Then there is the interest they have paid on the finance itself.

Still, happy you got the result you wanted OP.

Grumpy_chap

DrEskimo said: 

The OP has kept the car and no longer has any outstanding debt (the £6k final payment). Given this finance was technically on the other ladies car, she will not be liable for it either.

In essence the OP got £6k for free, but we have no idea what discount the OP originally got on the car. If they overpaid then they are not much better off. Then there is the interest they have paid on the finance itself.

Still, happy you got the result you wanted OP.

As far as I can tell, the only damage the OP has suffered in this case is some admin error with some generally inconsequential numbers in the paperwork - so inconsequential that the OP did not realise these numbers were incorrect until the end of the 4-year deal and time to return the car or pay the balloon.

£6k of compensation for that seems disproportionately generous.

All the stuff about fraud and the little old lady is nothing more than noise in the OP's case - though there may be further steps required to either report the fraud for criminal investigation and / or to make fair recompense to the little old lady.

We do know that the OP got a good discount on the car:

hilly2020 said:

I was offered an amazing deal from VW, after I signed for the car, the day I was meant to pick up the car, I had a phone call telling me they couldn't honour the agreement.
I then kicked up a fuss which they then said they would honour the deal,  the second time I went into the dealership to sign, I noticed it was for the same car but a different spec. They tried to fob me off and say i wouldn't notice the difference between a 60bhp and 75bhp which I declined as that's not what they originally offered me.

After about 3 months of back and forth with the dealership and going on social media etc they called me and finally offered me the original deal. I signed for the car and drove it away.

Had the "amazing deal" not had any discount then we can suppose that the Dealer would have probably honoured the deal for the correct car, but treating the price variance between the two engine choices as the discount, even if that was not the Dealer's original intention.

The OP did not even realise the error on the paperwork until the end of the term:

Come the end of the deal, I have looked into the original paper work and discovered that the car I drove away from the showroom  has no finance on it and the agreement is for another car that I have never owned.

How much has the OP actually lost or suffered?

I would like to understand the true situation and outcome as this has moved from the OP setting out a case that seemed highly unlikely would go anywhere, but then after a year has returned a generous outcome in favour of the OP.  Would be good to understand so that we can all give good advice for the future.

Grumpy_chap

AdrianC said:

There are no ombudsman's decisions relevant to the OP's claimed case visible from a search for "Volkswagen" from this year.
However, there are only 8 decisions from April, and none more recent - by comparison, there are 51 total from the year, so 43 from January to March.

22 of those 51 complaints were upheld (the customer was right), 29 were not (VW did nothing wrong).

The OP posted 2nd June:

hilly2020 said:

on Monday I received a letter 

So, the letter was received Monday 31st May (?)
Maybe there is a delay in decisions and the upload to the public database.  Perhaps to allow time for the complainant to accept or reject the decision.  That might explain why so few decisions visible for April and none for May.

fred246

In all likelihood the little old lady possibly wouldn't have been able to cope with 75bhp. Would probably have rolled it and ended in a ditch. Good job in a way. It may have saved her life getting the smaller engine.

AdrianC

Grumpy_chap said:

AdrianC said:

There are no ombudsman's decisions relevant to the OP's claimed case visible from a search for "Volkswagen" from this year.
However, there are only 8 decisions from April, and none more recent - by comparison, there are 51 total from the year, so 43 from January to March.

22 of those 51 complaints were upheld (the customer was right), 29 were not (VW did nothing wrong).

The OP posted 2nd June:

hilly2020 said:

on Monday I received a letter 

So, the letter was received Monday 31st May (?)
Maybe there is a delay in decisions and the upload to the public database.  Perhaps to allow time for the complainant to accept or reject the decision.  That might explain why so few decisions visible for April and none for May.

Yes, exactly.

The decision would not have been published yet, it's too recent.

hilly2020

Grumpy_chap said:

Thank you for explaining OP.  I think I now understand what has happened, but the why is very confusing in what we can all acknowledge is a very exceptional case.  As I understand it:

• You were offered a VW Polo XYZ 75 bhp car in return for £A deposit plus 48 months at £B per month plus £6k balloon payment. - Correct.
• There was some delay and frustration, but you were provided with the VW Polo XYZ 75 bhp car - The delay and frustration at the time cost me in the region of £3k, I sold my car in the coming days leading up to me collecting the Polo, I had numerous taxis/ trains and eventually hired a car that got hit as it was parked and I had a £750 excess. So this wasn’t just a minor inconvenience for me at the time.
• You made payments of the £A deposit plus 48 months at £B per month - Correct, never missed or was late in any payment within 4 years.
• When you reached the end of the 48-months and the balloon payment of £6k was due (or return the car), you noticed a discrepancy in the paperwork, but that was only really some incorrectly entered numbers which are of no consequence in the daily ownership or use of the vehicle. - I went back to VW to part exchange my Polo when the salesman went to check the value of my car, he comes back and told me I didn’t own the car I was driving, he explained to me about a lady who had my car (not sure if she’s a little old granny) I assumed it from her name he gave me, anyway that's when I checked my paperwork and initially come on here for advice.
• There is some tale about the incorrect car and the lower-powered car given to an old lady etc. etc. None of which is verified and unsure why VW would share that information if, indeed, it was fraud. - This is an assumption as I also went to Mercedes, the guy I spoke to who used to work as a manager in VW and we come to this conclusion, as he said it's not uncommon for VW to try and balance the books and do this sort of thing. He said they were terrible for pulling the wool over customer's eyes. 
• If there was such a fraud, the victim is the little old lady, and she is one the one who should be compensated.  Even then, her loss is not £6k but the marginal difference in purchase price between the 75 bhp car she paid for and the 60 bhp car she apparently received.  A difference of around £1k, not £6k. - Roughly a 2k difference in car models, if I could find this lady I would inform her as I imagine she is none the wiser.
• I assume that if the FOS became aware of such a fraud event, they would ensure that the victim of the fraud was appropriately compensated for the loss they suffered or could have suffered. - I was told by VW it was a clerical error which was incorrect as every time I went to VW for a service they would have seen my details, again another lie and BS excuse from VW. (also everyone I spoke to at VW said they never heard a case of anyone driving off in a car that didn't belong to them)
• If the tale is correct, and the fraud all happened as described, you still suffered no loss.  For all intents and purposes, the incorrect numbers on the paperwork were only an admin error in so far as there is any effect upon yourself, yet you are now "up" by £6k as you have not made the balloon payment.  Why would the ombudsman award you £6k, but not address the issue for the little old lady and leave VW £6k down? - As I stated earlier, it's not been confirmed by the ombudsmen but VW has confirmed it plus the financial loss I had from twice going to the dealership to collect a car to then be told they wouldn’t honour the deal then secondly tried getting me to sign for a different car I feel and believe I’m well in my right for compensation.
• Still not sure what happened to the car at the end of the 4-year deal while this year-long process took place. - I still drive it, they couldn’t collect it as there is no finance attached to it and it is in the name of this (little old lady, called Mary)

Was there actually something else in the process that the ombudsman found and made the decision against?  - The ombudsmen advice to me was they can't guarantee anything but could clearly see fraud had taken place. They have most likely asked VW for documents of my dealings etc, and VW has now done a U-Turn and has decided instead of taking this any further they would cancel the financial agreement.

So I hope this makes better sense and to anyone on here !!!!!! off that I am smug, I'm smug because I come on here for advice and basically got told VW would take me to court, I'm going to lose, I'm in the wrong etc, and I won by doing it alone. 

I didn’t explain all the intricacies of the case because there was too many and a lot is irrelevant to the point, I was screwed over by VW whether I got a slightly better car or not and if I can help anyone out with a similar issue I will. We should be sticking together in times like these not being annoyed because a lot of people don't know what they're talking about but give bad advice.

PS, if I still haven't made this clear enough and you want to know the full details send me your number and I’ll call you!

Take care

Grumpy_chap

hilly2020 said:
I hope this makes better sense 

Thanks.

Glad it worked out for you.  It was a very exceptional set of circumstances, perhaps unlikely to be repeated.