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How to isolate a bed from the building?

24

Comments

  • coffeehound
    coffeehound Posts: 5,741 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 27 June 2020 pm30 1:55PM
    NewShadow said:
    Ermm... two things spring to mind: 

    1. Have you considered inviting environmental health around for a visit? I think vibrations and audible sound probably come under the same banner when it comes noise pollution... 

    2. How on earth are you going to explain this to any potential buyers...?!? 
    Thanks.
     1.  I get the impression (rightly or wrongly) that EH is a very slow and often unsatisfactory route.  Net-twitcher downstairs never goes out so would know of their visit and any equipment in/out so would stop his machinations accordingly.
    2.  It's a rental

    grumbler said:
    Frame is useless. And you don't need to cut into anything. All you need is just to locate the joists.
    However, I'd rather use some elastic rubber straps instead of springs.

    ETA: the frame can work too with elastic straps.
    e.g. https://upliftactive.com/products/extra-bungee-cord - too expensive, unfortunately, but you can find or DIY something much cheaper. 
    Thanks for the suggestion and  link.  Yes I have bungee cord (shock cord) from the frame already -- and unbelievably it doesn't work! :(


     Thanks for the useful suggestion.  Floor is concrete, walls are brick, ceiling is beams and plasterboard.  Wish I had asked here before ordering the frame as using ceiling fittings would have saved about £200 and probably worked better.  The bungees are in eight bundles of three, so from what you say, using eight ceiling fittings would be really secure and would spread the weight across perhaps four floor beams.  May still try those or Grumbler's if other avenues don't work.

    FreeBear said:
    Protection from Harassment Act 1997
    (1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct
                   (a)which amounts to harassment of another, and
                   (b)which he knows or ought to know amounts to harassment of the other.
    Section two makes it a criminal offence punishable with prison time and/or a fine. If this neighbour has built a machine with the express purpose of harassment, then the police should be involved. If they refuse, then lodging a complaint with the IOPC is in order.

    Illegitimi non carborundum
    Thanks for that.  After some thought I will do as suggested and report this after their weekend rush.  A car I parked in the alloted  area last week was vandalised overnight so it is getting out of hand.  (Had to google the last bit!)
  • Just as a follow up to this, think I found out what he was using to pummel my floor:

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/2087411/bad-vibrations-chinese-flat-dwellers-get-even-noisy-upstairs-neighbours

    https://noisebgone.com/produkt/bk-quake-device-against-noisy-neighbors-220v-remote/

    And guess what:  the downstairs neighbour at my new flat has started doing exactly the same thing.
  • Bendy_House
    Bendy_House Posts: 4,756 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited 11 November 2021 am30 8:58AM
    OhMaGawd! Coffeehound!
    FreeBear is right - the cause needs to be tackled. This is harassment off the scale of intent! (Is your flat owned by you, or rented? And the flat below?)
    Are you 100% certain there is no other - 'natural' - cause for this vibration and sound? Yes? Ok...
    Two things you'll need - evidence, and action. And I think both will be easy to do.
    (Oh, do you have LP on your HI? Not sure that would help you at the moment, but they are usually good at giving advice - the correct way to proceed. Might also be useful should you need a legal approach to any subsequent action. Or legal representation should it go further.)
    I presume - hope - you have been keeping a detailed log of all the noise, when it happens, what it's like, and how long it goes on for? Good. And a detailed log of everything that preceded this - what was it that led to 'the ship having sailed'?
    Write down EVERYTHING that transpired between you and the flat below. Any witnesses to any of it? As verbatim as possible a recollection of any conversation that took place. Do this - it's important.
    Cool - that's the background. Now for the current issue. You ain't a technophobe, are you?! You'll need a microphone and some (free will do) audio processing software such as Audacity. If these vibrations are infra-sound - as I presume they are - this will still pick it up and (a) show you it as a waveform pattern indicating its frequency, (b) allow you to transpose it upwards so's it's audible, (c) allow you to record it, and (e) should provide an idea of its volume. You record all this on your PC.
    After a few days of accumulating enough evidence, you might want to try an approach to the person's flat whilst this sound is taking place. If you do, have a method of recording the conversation with you - a phone or whatevs. Calm, bold, straight-forward, matter of fact - "The noise you are making needs to stop." See how they react. Depending on which you can tell them what's going to happen,"or I will involve the police and take legal action against you." Simple statement to test the water and gauge their reaction. Don't forget, they can't attack you - the worst you'll get is a face-load of abuse. Which you record. So, if they are foul-mouthed, don't forget to smile back.
    I'd actually hope that, when you ring their bell/hammer on their door, they'll turn off the device, because that would be clear evidence that the source of the sound is within their control. If they open their door with the sound still being generated, do you think it would be obvious to a person standing outside the doorway?
    Do you have any witnesses - visitors to your flat - who'll attest to the type of sound/vibe being created?

    If you are confident that the situation is as you described, Coffee - a deliberate intent to harass using some noise/vibration-generating device - then make this the day you are about to turn the tables. (And not just so you can sling a hammock between the legs).
    If you can collect the evidence I suggested above, this would seem to me to be as open-and-shut as it could be. You then contact your PCSO and EH at your LA. Keep the recordings going.
    If your visit to the flat garners the desired results - ie the person shuts off the device when you ring the bell - then do this regularly :-)  Don't be cross, don't show agitation, don't raise your voice - the more calm you are the more it'll unnerve them. Just matter-of fact.
    Evidence evidence evidence. If they claim they are doing nuffink, but the sounds goes off every time before they open the door and goes back on afterwards, then, well, you know...
    Before someone shouts "You'll be harassing them!", no you won't. If you can demonstrate that this unacceptable sound is coming from their flat and within their control, then you are within your rights to ask for it to stop. 
    If the noise continues when they are at their door, but it isn't obvious to you as you stand there due to its low frequency, then make a sound recording there ('Voice-recorder' on your phone) and load it into Aud to analyse. If you can show that this I-S is coming out their flat's door, that's further evidence.
    Good luck.

  • So you moved house and the same thing is happening?

  • And guess what:  the downstairs neighbour at my new flat has started doing exactly the same thing.
    Hadn't realised this was an old thread...
    Coffee, are you telling us that you have lived in two flats now, both of which have had downstairs neighbours who use a device to cause an intentional and intrusive vibration? That surely has to be very unlikely?
    Could you somehow be sensitive to naturally-occurring low frequency sounds? (By 'natural' that includes normal domestic appliances).

  • another_casualty
    another_casualty Posts: 6,506 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 11 November 2021 am30 11:28AM
    Only one thing to mention .." the floor is concrete ". 
    If this is the case in an upstairs flat, the floor should not be bare. It should be carpeted !
    That is the responsibility of the landlord ..
  • FreeBear said:

    Illegitimi non carborundum
    I second this.

    Weird people with spare cash walk amongst us!!
    No man is worth crawling on this earth.

    So much to read, so little time.
  • Sorry to hear about your misfortunes @coffeehound
    Hopefully your next place will be third time lucky so to speak . 
    As for upstairs flats ..carpet ! Carpet ! Carpet ! ( with underlay of course ):

    In my situation , I found out by chance while browsing right move that the person / people who purchased one of the flats above me had put down wooden flooring and were buy to let people . I notified the freeholders ( I am a leaseholder) ,and they seem to think that the guy put insulation in the flooring to dampen the noise . I'll leave it there ..
    From my experience , the best flats are upstairs maisonettes if you have the right neighbour below . Horses for courses 🐎🐎
  • Bendy_House
    Bendy_House Posts: 4,756 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited 11 November 2021 pm30 3:22PM
    Excellent post, Bendy, and will be useful advice for others who find themselves in this situation.  I wish I had gone straight down the formal route from the beginning rather than trying to outsmart him.  

    After posting here I tried suspending the bed from the ceiling as suggested by grumbler and Norman.  Actually the evil b downstairs had by this time brought in something more sinister than the chinese floor-shaker.  My best guess is that it was an industrial ultrasonic transducer.  He had a pal who used to turn up with a new box of tricks every so often, and the nature of the abuse and discomfort would change that night.  

    Even with the bed 5' off the floor, the output from the last thing was able to cause instant ear-ache and a very unpleasant sensations through the body that would cause nausea and GI disturbance.  After a bad night, the headache would last for a full day after, and I was worried it might be causing neural damage.  There was literally nowhere I could go in the flat to get away from it.  I was booking hotel rooms a couple of nights a week just to get a night's sleep.

    By this time he was also abstracting water from where the supply to my flat passed through his kitchen, which ultimately cost me £100s.  The flat was uninhabitable so I needed to get out quickly, and unfortunately jumped straight out of the frying pan into the fire.

    @koalakoala yes I wouldn't believe it myself if had not witnessed it first-hand.  Anyone reading this will be thinking psychosis / schizophrenia / hallucinations / fantasicst etc, but no; I'm as objective as anyone.  I could write a book on this but without going into great detail, both neighbours in this case are eccentric, over-sensitive, unreasonable shut-ins who virtually never go out and exhibit traits of control-freakery, entitlement, and territorialism.  The last guy was a genuine sadistic psychopath.  Although very considerate and quiet most of the time, I snore and probably have obstructive sleep apnoea too, so I think that is the reason for provoking a response.  But they would probably be a problem for anyone.

    No Bendy, this was definitely not something else.  It was very clear by the timing, precise targeting and mocking/abuse shouted through the floor where this was coming from.

    @another_casualty you're right.  The previous tenant at that flat had fitted laminate over the concrete in an attempt to get some privacy from the nutter I suspect, but had ripped it out upon leaving.  I'm surprised this place has laminate as it is awful for noise.  I only ever pad about in socks and have felt pads on the feet of chairs and tables, so do not make much noise.

    It just sounds like such a blatant situation that I think it should be relatively easy to gather evidence.
    Are you saying the situation is similar where you are now? Ie - the person in the flat below yours is using a device in order to harass using sound and vibrations?
    If so, then you 'just' need evidence, and I've suggested how you can do that. It should soon become obvious that there is no other plausible cause.
    It sounds hellish.

    If the previous flat was rented by you, I'd be inclined to call in at the new tenant and ask how things are going... If they need a witness to support any anti-soc behaviour from the flat below, you're the fellow :-)
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