What can I do to stop Door-to-Door salespeople ?

Davesnave

Emmia said:

fenwick458 said:

I haven't read all pages here so sorry if somebody has already beat me to it, but the answer is, answer the door naked

That really only works for men. 

Depends on the man, I'd have thought.

There are also a few women in our village who'd scare me much more, but best we don't go there, I think!

Jackmydad

dispossessed said:

Jackmydad said:

elsien said:

Jackmydad said:

Beware of the dog sign ?

I have a "this property is guarded by English bull terrier security" sign. Mainly because it made me laugh as Gitdog is useless.

Doesn't work. They knock the door then retreat to a safe distance till they can see where the dog is. 

It used to work here for the occasional visitor, but then they had to go through a gate, and walk about 50 yards, usually with our GSD following. He was as soft as a brush, but he used to "laugh" at them.

Arthur,  I don't know how to recognise a salesman by looks alone, but if I don't know somebody, I wouldn't answer the door. People wanting to borrow anything can go away as well, unless I happen to be outside. In which case they can still go away.  Unless they are of a small group of actual friends that is. That's different.
They know better than to ask!  (Not really, but I'm not much of a borrower or a lender)

"Question everything" is fine.
In theory.
In practice it ain't as easy.
You can question all you want, but when there's no real answer, as in this case, then you're banging your head against a brick wall.
Your answer to the TVL people was fairly simple, as you were dealing with one entity who more or less has to listen.
Your salesmen are multiple entities who won't listen, or take notice of signs, or anything else.
So the only answer I can see is not to engage with them.
The uniformed people you might have to check it's nothing. But that's a minor annoyance.

Cats. Phone number only on the collar. It's what we used to do and worked fine.

One thing is sure. There's no "magic bullet" to stop cold callers.

"You can question all you want, but when there's no real answer, as in this case, then you're banging your head against a brick wall."

I suspect that similar statements were made to the people who sought to fly and develop pain free surgery etc

I'm 'retired' now but in a former professional incarnation I was  responsible (in part) for changes to English Law on several occasions. I may well pursue a legal remedy in 2021 (bit too busy at present) so do keep a lookout if you are interested.

Having said that if I can find an effective solution before then I will be able to enjoy my retirement and indulge in my hobbies. I would much prefer this option.

Arthur

I think you're mixing up scientific discovery and developments, and changing the basic nature of living things.
For instance AFAIK, the discovery that pain free surgery was possible, was linked to the discovery of Nitrous oxide some years previously. Can't remember who it was, and can't be bothered to look it up, but someone realised some time later it's potential to anaesthetise patients. As I remember reading it,  the pain of surgery was seen as something that had to be endured up until that time in an almost positve way I remember reading.
Flight again was a series of technological developments rather than Orville and Wilbur Wright waking up one morning and saying "Lets make a flying machine"

On the other hand nobody has found a way to stop sharks biting what they see as food.
They've found deterrents yes, but not any absolute shark behaviour changer.
Door to door salesmen knock on doors. It's what they do.
Failing a law, good luck with changing that behaviour, no matter how strongly you feel that there is an answer. There probably isn't a practical, real world one apart from don't answer the door.

I've got a "Call Guardian" on my phone. I don't get unwanted calls. It's great.
There's nothing similar for door knockers, because they're physically there.
But you can do it yourself. Look to see who it is via technology.
Don't recognise them, don't answer.
They'll go away.

FreeBear

Jackmydad said: Door to door salesmen knock on doors. It's what they do.
Failing a law, good luck with changing that behaviour, no matter how strongly you feel that there is an answer. There probably isn't a practical, real world one apart from don't answer the door.

Legislating against certain behaviour will reduce the problem a little. But there will be loopholes and the hardcore that refuse to comply - Cold call telesales has been banned for some time now. Still doesn't stop the burgers <grrrr>.

Unwanted doorstep visitors, there is a deterrent. Expensive, and probably breaches quite a few regulations... Automated defence systems. Maybe persuade one of the weapons manufacturers to develop a domestic non-lethal system using paint ball or a spud gun ?

Jackmydad

FreeBear said:

Jackmydad said: Door to door salesmen knock on doors. It's what they do.
Failing a law, good luck with changing that behaviour, no matter how strongly you feel that there is an answer. There probably isn't a practical, real world one apart from don't answer the door.

Legislating against certain behaviour will reduce the problem a little. But there will be loopholes and the hardcore that refuse to comply - Cold call telesales has been banned for some time now. Still doesn't stop the burgers <grrrr>.

Unwanted doorstep visitors, there is a deterrent. Expensive, and probably breaches quite a few regulations... Automated defence systems. Maybe persuade one of the weapons manufacturers to develop a domestic non-lethal system using paint ball or a spud gun ?

Exactly, legislation might stop some of 'em, but it's not going to stop the tarmac boys, or the charity ones I suspect.
I'll have two of those please! One either end of the bungalow here. 

dispossessed

Jackmydad said:

dispossessed said:

Jackmydad said:

elsien said:

Jackmydad said:

Beware of the dog sign ?

I have a "this property is guarded by English bull terrier security" sign. Mainly because it made me laugh as Gitdog is useless.

Doesn't work. They knock the door then retreat to a safe distance till they can see where the dog is. 

It used to work here for the occasional visitor, but then they had to go through a gate, and walk about 50 yards, usually with our GSD following. He was as soft as a brush, but he used to "laugh" at them.

Arthur,  I don't know how to recognise a salesman by looks alone, but if I don't know somebody, I wouldn't answer the door. People wanting to borrow anything can go away as well, unless I happen to be outside. In which case they can still go away.  Unless they are of a small group of actual friends that is. That's different.
They know better than to ask!  (Not really, but I'm not much of a borrower or a lender)

"Question everything" is fine.
In theory.
In practice it ain't as easy.
You can question all you want, but when there's no real answer, as in this case, then you're banging your head against a brick wall.
Your answer to the TVL people was fairly simple, as you were dealing with one entity who more or less has to listen.
Your salesmen are multiple entities who won't listen, or take notice of signs, or anything else.
So the only answer I can see is not to engage with them.
The uniformed people you might have to check it's nothing. But that's a minor annoyance.

Cats. Phone number only on the collar. It's what we used to do and worked fine.

One thing is sure. There's no "magic bullet" to stop cold callers.

"You can question all you want, but when there's no real answer, as in this case, then you're banging your head against a brick wall."

I suspect that similar statements were made to the people who sought to fly and develop pain free surgery etc

I'm 'retired' now but in a former professional incarnation I was  responsible (in part) for changes to English Law on several occasions. I may well pursue a legal remedy in 2021 (bit too busy at present) so do keep a lookout if you are interested.

Having said that if I can find an effective solution before then I will be able to enjoy my retirement and indulge in my hobbies. I would much prefer this option.

Arthur

I think you're mixing up scientific discovery and developments, and changing the basic nature of living things.
For instance AFAIK, the discovery that pain free surgery was possible, was linked to the discovery of Nitrous oxide some years previously. Can't remember who it was, and can't be bothered to look it up, but someone realised some time later it's potential to anaesthetise patients. As I remember reading it,  the pain of surgery was seen as something that had to be endured up until that time in an almost positve way I remember reading.
Flight again was a series of technological developments rather than Orville and Wilbur Wright waking up one morning and saying "Lets make a flying machine"

On the other hand nobody has found a way to stop sharks biting what they see as food.
They've found deterrents yes, but not any absolute shark behaviour changer.
Door to door salesmen knock on doors. It's what they do.
Failing a law, good luck with changing that behaviour, no matter how strongly you feel that there is an answer. There probably isn't a practical, real world one apart from don't answer the door.

I've got a "Call Guardian" on my phone. I don't get unwanted calls. It's great.
There's nothing similar for door knockers, because they're physically there.
But you can do it yourself. Look to see who it is via technology.
Don't recognise them, don't answer.
They'll go away.

Anaesthesia was discovered because some people, whilst accepting that pain was a natural consequence of surgical intervention, refused to believe that nothing could be done to ameliorate the problem.

My point was one needs to approach any problem with an open mind as to the possibility of the changing the status quo. Had this not occured we would, among other things, still be living in caves, burning witches and believing the Head of State has divine authority to rule.

You are quite correct insofar as if I do take the issue to law and succeed it would still not physically prevent anyone from calling. However, it would certainly result in a very significant reduction. It is not so much a question of finding a law but persuading a high court judge around to my way of thinking by way of supported legal argument.

You choose not to open the door to anyone whom you do not recognise and this works for you. The problem is if they were calling to advise your property appears to have smoke rising from it or your car headlights we left switched on, to give two possible examples, you may have denied yourself a valuable opportunity. Ultimately - it is your life, your particular set of circumstances and your choice.

As I have said several times - we have CCTV  but I know of no reliable method for determining caller intent merely from observation. The CCTV was installed as purely as a deterrent to unwanted cold callers (it's an overt system) and I completely accept that in that purpose it has failed. It was not expensive and I quite enjoyed installing it.

Nevertheless I am grateful to the people who knocked at the door to advise our cat was lying in the road mortally injured etc Why on earth would they telephone when they are outside the house. I am also grateful to people who have called to advise that car headlights were left on. There are many other examples and I recognised none of these people but they have my thanks.

Live your life as you wish to do so, thank you for your input and I wish you peace and prosperity.

Arthur

Jackmydad

People had been looking for painless surgery since time immemorial. It still took scientific and technological advances to reach a certain point before it became practically possible.
You're missing my point that you're comparing said scientific / tech advances with attempts to modify human behaviour.
Still, as you imply, we all live our lives as we wish.

Peace and prosperity in return to you.

dispossessed

Jackmydad said:

People had been looking for painless surgery since time immemorial. It still took scientific and technological advances to reach a certain point before it became practically possible.
You're missing my point that you're comparing said scientific / tech advances with attempts to modify human behaviour.
Still, as you imply, we all live our lives as we wish.

Peace and prosperity in return to you.

"People had been looking for painless surgery since time immemorial" - as the page to which the link directed you stated.

"It still took scientific and technological advances to reach a certain point before it became practically possible." - Agreed, although there are records from Circa 100 BCE of the Chinese practising it for this purpose. Without an open mind and belief in the possibility of success no one would have attemtped it.

"You're missing my point that you're comparing said scientific / tech advances with attempts to modify human behaviour."

Human behaviour is a science  - it's a branch within the spectrum of Behavioral Sciences often referred to as 'Behavioural Psychology". Having a basic understanding of it has often assisted my courtcraft and enabled a positive outcome.

Arthur (LLB LLM MSc)

Jackmydad

Yes, I read it, but then I read "The Triumph of Surgery" by Jurgen Thorwald, many, many years before the internet was around as well.
One thing having an open mind, and a belief in the possibility of success, where there is at least a chance of that success.
We have to work within the framework of what is actually possible, or what theory says is possible in some cases, and not what we would simply like to be possible. 
And again, the study of human behaviour is indeed a science.
It may be useful in some cases.
Good luck with using it to modify the behaviour of salesmen. 

dispossessed

Jackmydad said:

Yes, I read it, but then I read "The Triumph of Surgery" by Jurgen Thorwald, many, many years before the internet was around as well.
One thing having an open mind, and a belief in the possibility of success, where there is at least a chance of that success.
We have to work within the framework of what is actually possible, or what theory says is possible in some cases, and not what we would simply like to be possible. 
And again, the study of human behaviour is indeed a science.
It may be useful in some cases.
Good luck with using it to modify the behaviour of salesmen. 

Parliament passed a law that outlawed smoking in public houses. How often do you see someone smoking in a public house ? That demonstrates success in modifying the behaviour of chemical addicts. They may still be addicted but they comply with the law.

If law were of no value we would have anarchy. We don't. 

Arthur

London50

also look at  the Blink xt2 camera on Amazon. Has motion detection that can be set and 2 way audio without them  knocking or ringing at your door