Employment gaps shouldn't matter should they?

AW618

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

theoretica said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

theoretica said:

Planet_Switzerland

The answer is I don't know. Yes I am assuming it because I'm not getting offered a job.

Offering a possible thought here - you will know if it feels like it fits you.  When recruiting the company will be looking for a number of different criteria and score candidates against them (either formally, or informally). One or more specific technical abilities, management experience, communication, fitting straight into the company structure... that sort of thing - probably mostly what they ask for in the job advert.  They then need to choose between candidates who are decent at all of these (say they were scored at BBBB on 4 criteria) and candidates who were better at some things than others ( say ABBC).  If in the interview the ABBC candidate persuades them the C doesn't matter and can rapidly be improved then the B candidate gets told it went to someone better at criterion 1.  If candidate ABBC doesn't persuade them the C doesn't really matter (or BBBB candidate pulls some As out of their hat - it isn't just how well one candidate does) then ABBC is told that the job went to someone better in criterion 4.  Yes the interviewers knew this was weaker when they made the interview invitation, but they felt the candidate was worth a chance because of other strengths.

Well the company structure is probably a place where I fall down. I don't want to work for a company with a similar structure to ours, if one even exists, because that's half the problem. How do I persuade someone that I can adapt to what seems like a better structure without slagging my company off?

I would say you need to find a time to address this head on - don't not mention it as though you hope they won't have noticed, because they will have and you can't lower their concerns if you don't at least briefly mention it. But you also don't want to say so much about it that it seems to be a big problem for you.  It's not slagging off your current employer to praise something about the company you are applying to.  Also I think 'structure' will be a shorthand for concern about things which your current job hasn't had you doing, but the new one would.  So you do want to think about your examples that show you can do those things and make sure you include them in the interview. 

So if you were a mechanic and all the cars you fixed went straight to the scrapyard, how would you show you're capable of getting a car back on the road?

I know it sounds silly, but that's what my job is the equivalent of and I really don't want to say what I do as it's a specialised job which puts me in danger of being identified.

I'd say I fixed the cars.  If they were scrapped after I had fixed them, that is none of my concern.  I fixed them and they were roadworthy.  At that point, stop telling the story.

What if they asked what happened to the cars after your fixed them?

Why would they ask that?  You fixed them and returned them to the person who asked you to fix them.  No mechanic knows or cares what happens to cars as long as they don't come back to him with the same problem. And why does it matter if they were scrapped, tell them they were scrapped, but they were in fully working order.  There's presumably some reason they were scrapped, unless your company are just lunatics, in which case they wouldn't still be in business.  The interviewers aren't going to care that they were scrapped, why do you thinik they would?

My company are just lunatics and it's only a matter of time before they go out of business. At a recent interview I talked about a project I started some point in 2018 and the plug got pulled at the start of this year. I didn't mention the latter, but they did ask what the outcome of the project was and I said it was still a work in progress, so they asked to to talk about a project that did have an outcome.

They have been in business for years by your account.  You might want to consider that they do have some idea what they are doing.

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

I am not interested in any of that, sorry.  You said you are bad at interviews.  How do you  think this manifests itself?  If the answer is "I don't know", then say so.  Are you just assuming it because you are not getting offered a job?
Why are you harping on about the shortcomings of your current company? They are not the ones interviewing you.  I presume you have the sense not to do this at interviews; but you present your current job in a positive light.  If your point is that your current company doesn't let you exercise the skills required for the jobs you are applying for, then you are applying for the wrong jobs.  To be honest that's what it looks like to me, rather than you being bad at interviews, so if you think you are bad at interviews, say why.

The answer is I don't know. Yes I am assuming it because I'm not getting offered a job.

I'm harping on about the shortcomings of my current company because yes my talent is being wasted. I do present my current job in a positive light which is a challenge in itself.

If I'm applying for the wrong jobs then what are the right jobs?

How would I know?  It might help if you answer the question I asked - is it the case that you feel your company is not allowing you to get useful experience in the jobs you are applying for?

Yes, that's something I've felt since day one. 

It's been the equivalent of fixing someones car, but then the customer decides they don't want the car back. I've tried filling in the gaps in my experience over the years the best I can, but then more gaps start appearing. Its like there's some sort of secret knowledge that I need to know, but I don't know what it is.

Does that answer your question?

Yes.  Then I would suggest you start applying for jobs which you are experienced and qualified for.  There is no point going for things that you feel you should have been getting experience for and then telling them at the interview that no, you haven't done any of that.

Where would I find these jobs? 

It would be like a mechanic looking for a job where all the cars you fix go straight to the scrapyard. Nobody would have such a job because it's pointless.

If I look at the person specification on the last job I applied for, I match each criteria on paper. 

Again, how the bloody hell would I know?  You won't say what you do, and you say it is a specialised field, so I wouldn't know even if you did.
But if, as you seem to be saying, you have a job title of "ferret wrangler" but you are not wrangling any ferrets and are saying so at interview, then it's hardly surprising you are not getting ferret wrangling jobs.  Whatever you are doing, apply for jobs doing that.

OK a real example. Years ago at a previous company, there was a 50 something man who'd been there 20 years. His job was to create something specific for our in-house software. We were the only company that had such a thing, I doubt any other jobs doing the same thing existed. 

Maybe he was happy doing that, but to me it was a waste of a career. Yet I find myself in the same trap because I've never seen a job description that matches my job in reality. I've had interviews at all our competitors which is as similar as you're going to get, but not similar enough it seems.

You seem hung up on what it is you do, rather than how you do it.  Whatever the software was for, it was presumably a transferable skill that he used to create it.  Of course if he was using 20 year old skills they wouldn't be much sought after elsewhere (although in some cases he could make an absolute killing contracting).  Is this your problem?  Are you a software developer with outdated skills?  This is very much a solvable problem

No I'm not a software developer. It is true to say I can use transferable skills to do other things within my field, but that's what I'm not being given the chance to do. I'm not saying I'm good at everything, but it's true to say there are some things that I've had no prior knowledge of that I've got very good at very quickly because I can use my transferable skills to do it. The question is how do I convince the interviewer that?

You tell them. There has to be some outcome.  There are milestones.  But unless you sat there for two years doing nothing, you managed to achieve something. Nobody can give you specifics as you keep on clouding everything with bad analogies, and anyway, working out the best way to present what you have done is your problem.  You have been given as good advice as you could hope for under the circumstances and all you seem to want to do is complain about how it doesn't apply  to you, and how nobody is giving you specific answers, despite you not giving them any specific information. 
If you honestly think your company is not giving you opportunities then you are not experienced enough for the jobs you are applying for.  That isn't their fault. You didn't have such things in previous job either, or you would be using them as examples.   If the job you have is not to your liking stop taking their money and apply for something else somewhere else that you are experienced enough to get.  You might well have to accept lower salary and a position lower on the ladder.  It actually sounds to me like your current company are valuing you above the market rate; you need to recognise that.

In the same way companies like BHS had been around for years, it's best days are behind them and the latest regime are running the company into the ground. Jobs are being cut and more cuts are on the way.

I have no complaints about peoples advice on here, I happen to think there have been some good points. 

I'm definitely not being paid above the market rate. There are people in my occupation who are making 6 figure salaries and I'm not getting anywhere near that, nor am I applying for jobs that pay anywhere near that.

My time at the company can more or less be split into 2. The first few years I was the only one in my department who worked in my area so I had to teach myself everything and do what I thought needed to be done. It served a purpose, I won awards for my work and was highly regarded by a lot of people. I did however wonder whether what I'd done was relevant for getting a new job. The last few years I've been working in a department where I'm only allowed to do work that's been signed off. Most of the work that does get signed off eventually amounts to nothing. Furthermore I don't get to do things like presenting or going to external meetings anymore and I like that sort of thing.

I am tempted to just quit my job in the hope it gets my out of this negative mindset.

What do you think?

I think you should think for yourself and make your own decisions.  You are the only one with sufficient information to have a worthwhile opinion.  

theoretica

Planet_Switzerland said:

I have no complaints about peoples advice on here, I happen to think there have been some good points.

Did you mean thank you?

AW618

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

theoretica said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

theoretica said:

Planet_Switzerland

The answer is I don't know. Yes I am assuming it because I'm not getting offered a job.

Offering a possible thought here - you will know if it feels like it fits you.  When recruiting the company will be looking for a number of different criteria and score candidates against them (either formally, or informally). One or more specific technical abilities, management experience, communication, fitting straight into the company structure... that sort of thing - probably mostly what they ask for in the job advert.  They then need to choose between candidates who are decent at all of these (say they were scored at BBBB on 4 criteria) and candidates who were better at some things than others ( say ABBC).  If in the interview the ABBC candidate persuades them the C doesn't matter and can rapidly be improved then the B candidate gets told it went to someone better at criterion 1.  If candidate ABBC doesn't persuade them the C doesn't really matter (or BBBB candidate pulls some As out of their hat - it isn't just how well one candidate does) then ABBC is told that the job went to someone better in criterion 4.  Yes the interviewers knew this was weaker when they made the interview invitation, but they felt the candidate was worth a chance because of other strengths.

Well the company structure is probably a place where I fall down. I don't want to work for a company with a similar structure to ours, if one even exists, because that's half the problem. How do I persuade someone that I can adapt to what seems like a better structure without slagging my company off?

I would say you need to find a time to address this head on - don't not mention it as though you hope they won't have noticed, because they will have and you can't lower their concerns if you don't at least briefly mention it. But you also don't want to say so much about it that it seems to be a big problem for you.  It's not slagging off your current employer to praise something about the company you are applying to.  Also I think 'structure' will be a shorthand for concern about things which your current job hasn't had you doing, but the new one would.  So you do want to think about your examples that show you can do those things and make sure you include them in the interview. 

So if you were a mechanic and all the cars you fixed went straight to the scrapyard, how would you show you're capable of getting a car back on the road?

I know it sounds silly, but that's what my job is the equivalent of and I really don't want to say what I do as it's a specialised job which puts me in danger of being identified.

I'd say I fixed the cars.  If they were scrapped after I had fixed them, that is none of my concern.  I fixed them and they were roadworthy.  At that point, stop telling the story.

What if they asked what happened to the cars after your fixed them?

Why would they ask that?  You fixed them and returned them to the person who asked you to fix them.  No mechanic knows or cares what happens to cars as long as they don't come back to him with the same problem. And why does it matter if they were scrapped, tell them they were scrapped, but they were in fully working order.  There's presumably some reason they were scrapped, unless your company are just lunatics, in which case they wouldn't still be in business.  The interviewers aren't going to care that they were scrapped, why do you thinik they would?

My company are just lunatics and it's only a matter of time before they go out of business. At a recent interview I talked about a project I started some point in 2018 and the plug got pulled at the start of this year. I didn't mention the latter, but they did ask what the outcome of the project was and I said it was still a work in progress, so they asked to to talk about a project that did have an outcome.

They have been in business for years by your account.  You might want to consider that they do have some idea what they are doing.

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

I am not interested in any of that, sorry.  You said you are bad at interviews.  How do you  think this manifests itself?  If the answer is "I don't know", then say so.  Are you just assuming it because you are not getting offered a job?
Why are you harping on about the shortcomings of your current company? They are not the ones interviewing you.  I presume you have the sense not to do this at interviews; but you present your current job in a positive light.  If your point is that your current company doesn't let you exercise the skills required for the jobs you are applying for, then you are applying for the wrong jobs.  To be honest that's what it looks like to me, rather than you being bad at interviews, so if you think you are bad at interviews, say why.

The answer is I don't know. Yes I am assuming it because I'm not getting offered a job.

I'm harping on about the shortcomings of my current company because yes my talent is being wasted. I do present my current job in a positive light which is a challenge in itself.

If I'm applying for the wrong jobs then what are the right jobs?

How would I know?  It might help if you answer the question I asked - is it the case that you feel your company is not allowing you to get useful experience in the jobs you are applying for?

Yes, that's something I've felt since day one. 

It's been the equivalent of fixing someones car, but then the customer decides they don't want the car back. I've tried filling in the gaps in my experience over the years the best I can, but then more gaps start appearing. Its like there's some sort of secret knowledge that I need to know, but I don't know what it is.

Does that answer your question?

Yes.  Then I would suggest you start applying for jobs which you are experienced and qualified for.  There is no point going for things that you feel you should have been getting experience for and then telling them at the interview that no, you haven't done any of that.

Where would I find these jobs? 

It would be like a mechanic looking for a job where all the cars you fix go straight to the scrapyard. Nobody would have such a job because it's pointless.

If I look at the person specification on the last job I applied for, I match each criteria on paper. 

Again, how the bloody hell would I know?  You won't say what you do, and you say it is a specialised field, so I wouldn't know even if you did.
But if, as you seem to be saying, you have a job title of "ferret wrangler" but you are not wrangling any ferrets and are saying so at interview, then it's hardly surprising you are not getting ferret wrangling jobs.  Whatever you are doing, apply for jobs doing that.

OK a real example. Years ago at a previous company, there was a 50 something man who'd been there 20 years. His job was to create something specific for our in-house software. We were the only company that had such a thing, I doubt any other jobs doing the same thing existed. 

Maybe he was happy doing that, but to me it was a waste of a career. Yet I find myself in the same trap because I've never seen a job description that matches my job in reality. I've had interviews at all our competitors which is as similar as you're going to get, but not similar enough it seems.

You seem hung up on what it is you do, rather than how you do it.  Whatever the software was for, it was presumably a transferable skill that he used to create it.  Of course if he was using 20 year old skills they wouldn't be much sought after elsewhere (although in some cases he could make an absolute killing contracting).  Is this your problem?  Are you a software developer with outdated skills?  This is very much a solvable problem

No I'm not a software developer. It is true to say I can use transferable skills to do other things within my field, but that's what I'm not being given the chance to do. I'm not saying I'm good at everything, but it's true to say there are some things that I've had no prior knowledge of that I've got very good at very quickly because I can use my transferable skills to do it. The question is how do I convince the interviewer that?

You tell them. There has to be some outcome.  There are milestones.  But unless you sat there for two years doing nothing, you managed to achieve something. Nobody can give you specifics as you keep on clouding everything with bad analogies, and anyway, working out the best way to present what you have done is your problem.  You have been given as good advice as you could hope for under the circumstances and all you seem to want to do is complain about how it doesn't apply  to you, and how nobody is giving you specific answers, despite you not giving them any specific information. 
If you honestly think your company is not giving you opportunities then you are not experienced enough for the jobs you are applying for.  That isn't their fault. You didn't have such things in previous job either, or you would be using them as examples.   If the job you have is not to your liking stop taking their money and apply for something else somewhere else that you are experienced enough to get.  You might well have to accept lower salary and a position lower on the ladder.  It actually sounds to me like your current company are valuing you above the market rate; you need to recognise that.

In the same way companies like BHS had been around for years, it's best days are behind them and the latest regime are running the company into the ground. Jobs are being cut and more cuts are on the way.

I have no complaints about peoples advice on here, I happen to think there have been some good points. 

I'm definitely not being paid above the market rate. There are people in my occupation who are making 6 figure salaries and I'm not getting anywhere near that, nor am I applying for jobs that pay anywhere near that.

My time at the company can more or less be split into 2. The first few years I was the only one in my department who worked in my area so I had to teach myself everything and do what I thought needed to be done. It served a purpose, I won awards for my work and was highly regarded by a lot of people. I did however wonder whether what I'd done was relevant for getting a new job. The last few years I've been working in a department where I'm only allowed to do work that's been signed off. Most of the work that does get signed off eventually amounts to nothing. Furthermore I don't get to do things like presenting or going to external meetings anymore and I like that sort of thing.

I am tempted to just quit my job in the hope it gets my out of this negative mindset.

What do you think?

I think you should think for yourself and make your own decisions.  You are the only one with sufficient information to have a worthwhile opinion.  

I made the decision to leave at the start of 2018. If I'd have been offered a job then I would have left.

When I turned 16 I was still doing a paper round and started applying for part time jobs, 2 months later I decided to quit my paper round because I was too old to still be doing it, gave a weeks notice and had a job interview on the last day of my paper round which I was offered the next day. 

I reluctantly went back to the part time job I did prior to uni during uni breaks as it was guaranteed work, then one summer decided to not go back and try for something else. Stayed in work all summer in higher paying jobs.

My initial decision to stay at my company for as long as I have was a bad one. I can't make anyone give me a job, but nobody can stop me from quitting the one I'm in. 

A friend of mine told me yesterday that he quit his previous job because he ended up hating it so much.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

No. I don't see why you think I would be interested in any of that rambling.
 And I don't see where you are going to, either.  Again, have you tried applying for jobs that carry lower salaries and lower responsibilities, as it looks like people don't think you are worth what your current company are paying you, and you don't seem to think you are able to make any sort of case to them that you are.

AW618

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

theoretica said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

theoretica said:

Planet_Switzerland

The answer is I don't know. Yes I am assuming it because I'm not getting offered a job.

Offering a possible thought here - you will know if it feels like it fits you.  When recruiting the company will be looking for a number of different criteria and score candidates against them (either formally, or informally). One or more specific technical abilities, management experience, communication, fitting straight into the company structure... that sort of thing - probably mostly what they ask for in the job advert.  They then need to choose between candidates who are decent at all of these (say they were scored at BBBB on 4 criteria) and candidates who were better at some things than others ( say ABBC).  If in the interview the ABBC candidate persuades them the C doesn't matter and can rapidly be improved then the B candidate gets told it went to someone better at criterion 1.  If candidate ABBC doesn't persuade them the C doesn't really matter (or BBBB candidate pulls some As out of their hat - it isn't just how well one candidate does) then ABBC is told that the job went to someone better in criterion 4.  Yes the interviewers knew this was weaker when they made the interview invitation, but they felt the candidate was worth a chance because of other strengths.

Well the company structure is probably a place where I fall down. I don't want to work for a company with a similar structure to ours, if one even exists, because that's half the problem. How do I persuade someone that I can adapt to what seems like a better structure without slagging my company off?

I would say you need to find a time to address this head on - don't not mention it as though you hope they won't have noticed, because they will have and you can't lower their concerns if you don't at least briefly mention it. But you also don't want to say so much about it that it seems to be a big problem for you.  It's not slagging off your current employer to praise something about the company you are applying to.  Also I think 'structure' will be a shorthand for concern about things which your current job hasn't had you doing, but the new one would.  So you do want to think about your examples that show you can do those things and make sure you include them in the interview. 

So if you were a mechanic and all the cars you fixed went straight to the scrapyard, how would you show you're capable of getting a car back on the road?

I know it sounds silly, but that's what my job is the equivalent of and I really don't want to say what I do as it's a specialised job which puts me in danger of being identified.

I'd say I fixed the cars.  If they were scrapped after I had fixed them, that is none of my concern.  I fixed them and they were roadworthy.  At that point, stop telling the story.

What if they asked what happened to the cars after your fixed them?

Why would they ask that?  You fixed them and returned them to the person who asked you to fix them.  No mechanic knows or cares what happens to cars as long as they don't come back to him with the same problem. And why does it matter if they were scrapped, tell them they were scrapped, but they were in fully working order.  There's presumably some reason they were scrapped, unless your company are just lunatics, in which case they wouldn't still be in business.  The interviewers aren't going to care that they were scrapped, why do you thinik they would?

My company are just lunatics and it's only a matter of time before they go out of business. At a recent interview I talked about a project I started some point in 2018 and the plug got pulled at the start of this year. I didn't mention the latter, but they did ask what the outcome of the project was and I said it was still a work in progress, so they asked to to talk about a project that did have an outcome.

They have been in business for years by your account.  You might want to consider that they do have some idea what they are doing.

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

I am not interested in any of that, sorry.  You said you are bad at interviews.  How do you  think this manifests itself?  If the answer is "I don't know", then say so.  Are you just assuming it because you are not getting offered a job?
Why are you harping on about the shortcomings of your current company? They are not the ones interviewing you.  I presume you have the sense not to do this at interviews; but you present your current job in a positive light.  If your point is that your current company doesn't let you exercise the skills required for the jobs you are applying for, then you are applying for the wrong jobs.  To be honest that's what it looks like to me, rather than you being bad at interviews, so if you think you are bad at interviews, say why.

The answer is I don't know. Yes I am assuming it because I'm not getting offered a job.

I'm harping on about the shortcomings of my current company because yes my talent is being wasted. I do present my current job in a positive light which is a challenge in itself.

If I'm applying for the wrong jobs then what are the right jobs?

How would I know?  It might help if you answer the question I asked - is it the case that you feel your company is not allowing you to get useful experience in the jobs you are applying for?

Yes, that's something I've felt since day one. 

It's been the equivalent of fixing someones car, but then the customer decides they don't want the car back. I've tried filling in the gaps in my experience over the years the best I can, but then more gaps start appearing. Its like there's some sort of secret knowledge that I need to know, but I don't know what it is.

Does that answer your question?

Yes.  Then I would suggest you start applying for jobs which you are experienced and qualified for.  There is no point going for things that you feel you should have been getting experience for and then telling them at the interview that no, you haven't done any of that.

Where would I find these jobs? 

It would be like a mechanic looking for a job where all the cars you fix go straight to the scrapyard. Nobody would have such a job because it's pointless.

If I look at the person specification on the last job I applied for, I match each criteria on paper. 

Again, how the bloody hell would I know?  You won't say what you do, and you say it is a specialised field, so I wouldn't know even if you did.
But if, as you seem to be saying, you have a job title of "ferret wrangler" but you are not wrangling any ferrets and are saying so at interview, then it's hardly surprising you are not getting ferret wrangling jobs.  Whatever you are doing, apply for jobs doing that.

OK a real example. Years ago at a previous company, there was a 50 something man who'd been there 20 years. His job was to create something specific for our in-house software. We were the only company that had such a thing, I doubt any other jobs doing the same thing existed. 

Maybe he was happy doing that, but to me it was a waste of a career. Yet I find myself in the same trap because I've never seen a job description that matches my job in reality. I've had interviews at all our competitors which is as similar as you're going to get, but not similar enough it seems.

You seem hung up on what it is you do, rather than how you do it.  Whatever the software was for, it was presumably a transferable skill that he used to create it.  Of course if he was using 20 year old skills they wouldn't be much sought after elsewhere (although in some cases he could make an absolute killing contracting).  Is this your problem?  Are you a software developer with outdated skills?  This is very much a solvable problem

No I'm not a software developer. It is true to say I can use transferable skills to do other things within my field, but that's what I'm not being given the chance to do. I'm not saying I'm good at everything, but it's true to say there are some things that I've had no prior knowledge of that I've got very good at very quickly because I can use my transferable skills to do it. The question is how do I convince the interviewer that?

You tell them. There has to be some outcome.  There are milestones.  But unless you sat there for two years doing nothing, you managed to achieve something. Nobody can give you specifics as you keep on clouding everything with bad analogies, and anyway, working out the best way to present what you have done is your problem.  You have been given as good advice as you could hope for under the circumstances and all you seem to want to do is complain about how it doesn't apply  to you, and how nobody is giving you specific answers, despite you not giving them any specific information. 
If you honestly think your company is not giving you opportunities then you are not experienced enough for the jobs you are applying for.  That isn't their fault. You didn't have such things in previous job either, or you would be using them as examples.   If the job you have is not to your liking stop taking their money and apply for something else somewhere else that you are experienced enough to get.  You might well have to accept lower salary and a position lower on the ladder.  It actually sounds to me like your current company are valuing you above the market rate; you need to recognise that.

In the same way companies like BHS had been around for years, it's best days are behind them and the latest regime are running the company into the ground. Jobs are being cut and more cuts are on the way.

I have no complaints about peoples advice on here, I happen to think there have been some good points. 

I'm definitely not being paid above the market rate. There are people in my occupation who are making 6 figure salaries and I'm not getting anywhere near that, nor am I applying for jobs that pay anywhere near that.

My time at the company can more or less be split into 2. The first few years I was the only one in my department who worked in my area so I had to teach myself everything and do what I thought needed to be done. It served a purpose, I won awards for my work and was highly regarded by a lot of people. I did however wonder whether what I'd done was relevant for getting a new job. The last few years I've been working in a department where I'm only allowed to do work that's been signed off. Most of the work that does get signed off eventually amounts to nothing. Furthermore I don't get to do things like presenting or going to external meetings anymore and I like that sort of thing.

I am tempted to just quit my job in the hope it gets my out of this negative mindset.

What do you think?

I think you should think for yourself and make your own decisions.  You are the only one with sufficient information to have a worthwhile opinion.  

I made the decision to leave at the start of 2018. If I'd have been offered a job then I would have left.

When I turned 16 I was still doing a paper round and started applying for part time jobs, 2 months later I decided to quit my paper round because I was too old to still be doing it, gave a weeks notice and had a job interview on the last day of my paper round which I was offered the next day. 

I reluctantly went back to the part time job I did prior to uni during uni breaks as it was guaranteed work, then one summer decided to not go back and try for something else. Stayed in work all summer in higher paying jobs.

My initial decision to stay at my company for as long as I have was a bad one. I can't make anyone give me a job, but nobody can stop me from quitting the one I'm in. 

A friend of mine told me yesterday that he quit his previous job because he ended up hating it so much.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

No. I don't see why you think I would be interested in any of that rambling.
 And I don't see where you are going to, either.  Again, have you tried applying for jobs that carry lower salaries and lower responsibilities, as it looks like people don't think you are worth what your current company are paying you, and you don't seem to think you are able to make any sort of case to them that you are.

I was telling you about decisions I've made.

Why? No, actually, don't tell me.

A lot of jobs I do apply to don't have an advertised salary or even specify how much experience they require, so for all I know I could be. Even the LinkedIn levels can be misleading, I've seen entry level jobs that require over 5 years experience and senior level jobs that only pay £25k. 

What makes you think I'm being overpaid?

The fact that all the jobs you apply for don't want to take you on. Of course there could be other reasons.

I haven't had a payrise for 4 years and even when I got my payrise my manager at the time conceded it was still a bit on the low side for someone of my experience.

Also why do you think I'd stand a better chance of getting a job with lower salaries and lower responsibilities? I've been told on a couple of occasions at a job interview that the job would probably be a step down for me, even though it pays more.

Everyone would stand a better chance of getting a job with a lower salary. If you can't get what you want, you change your goal.  But there you go, there's your other reasons. You have a job description that doesn't match your experience, you are applying for jobs with the same job description, you can't get them. Apply for jobs that match what you actually do, or start telling interviewers you actually do what you think you are supposed to do, whether you can "prove it to them" or not. Now, that's really enough from me on this. If I am wrong, then I am wrong, because I don't have the information you do, but if you think I am just please stop asking me questions. I don't care enough about you to waste any more of my time telling you the same thing over and over again.

AW618

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

theoretica said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

theoretica said:

Planet_Switzerland

The answer is I don't know. Yes I am assuming it because I'm not getting offered a job.

Offering a possible thought here - you will know if it feels like it fits you.  When recruiting the company will be looking for a number of different criteria and score candidates against them (either formally, or informally). One or more specific technical abilities, management experience, communication, fitting straight into the company structure... that sort of thing - probably mostly what they ask for in the job advert.  They then need to choose between candidates who are decent at all of these (say they were scored at BBBB on 4 criteria) and candidates who were better at some things than others ( say ABBC).  If in the interview the ABBC candidate persuades them the C doesn't matter and can rapidly be improved then the B candidate gets told it went to someone better at criterion 1.  If candidate ABBC doesn't persuade them the C doesn't really matter (or BBBB candidate pulls some As out of their hat - it isn't just how well one candidate does) then ABBC is told that the job went to someone better in criterion 4.  Yes the interviewers knew this was weaker when they made the interview invitation, but they felt the candidate was worth a chance because of other strengths.

Well the company structure is probably a place where I fall down. I don't want to work for a company with a similar structure to ours, if one even exists, because that's half the problem. How do I persuade someone that I can adapt to what seems like a better structure without slagging my company off?

I would say you need to find a time to address this head on - don't not mention it as though you hope they won't have noticed, because they will have and you can't lower their concerns if you don't at least briefly mention it. But you also don't want to say so much about it that it seems to be a big problem for you.  It's not slagging off your current employer to praise something about the company you are applying to.  Also I think 'structure' will be a shorthand for concern about things which your current job hasn't had you doing, but the new one would.  So you do want to think about your examples that show you can do those things and make sure you include them in the interview. 

So if you were a mechanic and all the cars you fixed went straight to the scrapyard, how would you show you're capable of getting a car back on the road?

I know it sounds silly, but that's what my job is the equivalent of and I really don't want to say what I do as it's a specialised job which puts me in danger of being identified.

I'd say I fixed the cars.  If they were scrapped after I had fixed them, that is none of my concern.  I fixed them and they were roadworthy.  At that point, stop telling the story.

What if they asked what happened to the cars after your fixed them?

Why would they ask that?  You fixed them and returned them to the person who asked you to fix them.  No mechanic knows or cares what happens to cars as long as they don't come back to him with the same problem. And why does it matter if they were scrapped, tell them they were scrapped, but they were in fully working order.  There's presumably some reason they were scrapped, unless your company are just lunatics, in which case they wouldn't still be in business.  The interviewers aren't going to care that they were scrapped, why do you thinik they would?

My company are just lunatics and it's only a matter of time before they go out of business. At a recent interview I talked about a project I started some point in 2018 and the plug got pulled at the start of this year. I didn't mention the latter, but they did ask what the outcome of the project was and I said it was still a work in progress, so they asked to to talk about a project that did have an outcome.

They have been in business for years by your account.  You might want to consider that they do have some idea what they are doing.

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

I am not interested in any of that, sorry.  You said you are bad at interviews.  How do you  think this manifests itself?  If the answer is "I don't know", then say so.  Are you just assuming it because you are not getting offered a job?
Why are you harping on about the shortcomings of your current company? They are not the ones interviewing you.  I presume you have the sense not to do this at interviews; but you present your current job in a positive light.  If your point is that your current company doesn't let you exercise the skills required for the jobs you are applying for, then you are applying for the wrong jobs.  To be honest that's what it looks like to me, rather than you being bad at interviews, so if you think you are bad at interviews, say why.

The answer is I don't know. Yes I am assuming it because I'm not getting offered a job.

I'm harping on about the shortcomings of my current company because yes my talent is being wasted. I do present my current job in a positive light which is a challenge in itself.

If I'm applying for the wrong jobs then what are the right jobs?

How would I know?  It might help if you answer the question I asked - is it the case that you feel your company is not allowing you to get useful experience in the jobs you are applying for?

Yes, that's something I've felt since day one. 

It's been the equivalent of fixing someones car, but then the customer decides they don't want the car back. I've tried filling in the gaps in my experience over the years the best I can, but then more gaps start appearing. Its like there's some sort of secret knowledge that I need to know, but I don't know what it is.

Does that answer your question?

Yes.  Then I would suggest you start applying for jobs which you are experienced and qualified for.  There is no point going for things that you feel you should have been getting experience for and then telling them at the interview that no, you haven't done any of that.

Where would I find these jobs? 

It would be like a mechanic looking for a job where all the cars you fix go straight to the scrapyard. Nobody would have such a job because it's pointless.

If I look at the person specification on the last job I applied for, I match each criteria on paper. 

Again, how the bloody hell would I know?  You won't say what you do, and you say it is a specialised field, so I wouldn't know even if you did.
But if, as you seem to be saying, you have a job title of "ferret wrangler" but you are not wrangling any ferrets and are saying so at interview, then it's hardly surprising you are not getting ferret wrangling jobs.  Whatever you are doing, apply for jobs doing that.

OK a real example. Years ago at a previous company, there was a 50 something man who'd been there 20 years. His job was to create something specific for our in-house software. We were the only company that had such a thing, I doubt any other jobs doing the same thing existed. 

Maybe he was happy doing that, but to me it was a waste of a career. Yet I find myself in the same trap because I've never seen a job description that matches my job in reality. I've had interviews at all our competitors which is as similar as you're going to get, but not similar enough it seems.

You seem hung up on what it is you do, rather than how you do it.  Whatever the software was for, it was presumably a transferable skill that he used to create it.  Of course if he was using 20 year old skills they wouldn't be much sought after elsewhere (although in some cases he could make an absolute killing contracting).  Is this your problem?  Are you a software developer with outdated skills?  This is very much a solvable problem

No I'm not a software developer. It is true to say I can use transferable skills to do other things within my field, but that's what I'm not being given the chance to do. I'm not saying I'm good at everything, but it's true to say there are some things that I've had no prior knowledge of that I've got very good at very quickly because I can use my transferable skills to do it. The question is how do I convince the interviewer that?

You tell them. There has to be some outcome.  There are milestones.  But unless you sat there for two years doing nothing, you managed to achieve something. Nobody can give you specifics as you keep on clouding everything with bad analogies, and anyway, working out the best way to present what you have done is your problem.  You have been given as good advice as you could hope for under the circumstances and all you seem to want to do is complain about how it doesn't apply  to you, and how nobody is giving you specific answers, despite you not giving them any specific information. 
If you honestly think your company is not giving you opportunities then you are not experienced enough for the jobs you are applying for.  That isn't their fault. You didn't have such things in previous job either, or you would be using them as examples.   If the job you have is not to your liking stop taking their money and apply for something else somewhere else that you are experienced enough to get.  You might well have to accept lower salary and a position lower on the ladder.  It actually sounds to me like your current company are valuing you above the market rate; you need to recognise that.

In the same way companies like BHS had been around for years, it's best days are behind them and the latest regime are running the company into the ground. Jobs are being cut and more cuts are on the way.

I have no complaints about peoples advice on here, I happen to think there have been some good points. 

I'm definitely not being paid above the market rate. There are people in my occupation who are making 6 figure salaries and I'm not getting anywhere near that, nor am I applying for jobs that pay anywhere near that.

My time at the company can more or less be split into 2. The first few years I was the only one in my department who worked in my area so I had to teach myself everything and do what I thought needed to be done. It served a purpose, I won awards for my work and was highly regarded by a lot of people. I did however wonder whether what I'd done was relevant for getting a new job. The last few years I've been working in a department where I'm only allowed to do work that's been signed off. Most of the work that does get signed off eventually amounts to nothing. Furthermore I don't get to do things like presenting or going to external meetings anymore and I like that sort of thing.

I am tempted to just quit my job in the hope it gets my out of this negative mindset.

What do you think?

I think you should think for yourself and make your own decisions.  You are the only one with sufficient information to have a worthwhile opinion.  

I made the decision to leave at the start of 2018. If I'd have been offered a job then I would have left.

When I turned 16 I was still doing a paper round and started applying for part time jobs, 2 months later I decided to quit my paper round because I was too old to still be doing it, gave a weeks notice and had a job interview on the last day of my paper round which I was offered the next day. 

I reluctantly went back to the part time job I did prior to uni during uni breaks as it was guaranteed work, then one summer decided to not go back and try for something else. Stayed in work all summer in higher paying jobs.

My initial decision to stay at my company for as long as I have was a bad one. I can't make anyone give me a job, but nobody can stop me from quitting the one I'm in. 

A friend of mine told me yesterday that he quit his previous job because he ended up hating it so much.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

No. I don't see why you think I would be interested in any of that rambling.
 And I don't see where you are going to, either.  Again, have you tried applying for jobs that carry lower salaries and lower responsibilities, as it looks like people don't think you are worth what your current company are paying you, and you don't seem to think you are able to make any sort of case to them that you are.

I was telling you about decisions I've made.

Why? No, actually, don't tell me.

A lot of jobs I do apply to don't have an advertised salary or even specify how much experience they require, so for all I know I could be. Even the LinkedIn levels can be misleading, I've seen entry level jobs that require over 5 years experience and senior level jobs that only pay £25k. 

What makes you think I'm being overpaid?

The fact that all the jobs you apply for don't want to take you on. Of course there could be other reasons.

I haven't had a payrise for 4 years and even when I got my payrise my manager at the time conceded it was still a bit on the low side for someone of my experience.

Also why do you think I'd stand a better chance of getting a job with lower salaries and lower responsibilities? I've been told on a couple of occasions at a job interview that the job would probably be a step down for me, even though it pays more.

Everyone would stand a better chance of getting a job with a lower salary. If you can't get what you want, you change your goal.  But there you go, there's your other reasons. You have a job description that doesn't match your experience, you are applying for jobs with the same job description, you can't get them. Apply for jobs that match what you actually do, or start telling interviewers you actually do what you think you are supposed to do, whether you can "prove it to them" or not. Now, that's really enough from me on this. If I am wrong, then I am wrong, because I don't have the information you do, but if you think I am just please stop asking me questions. I don't care enough about you to waste any more of my time telling you the same thing over and over again.

OK let's get back to the original point of this thread. I was thinking it was becoming a bit too much about me.

Someone I worked with at a supermarket when I was a student got sacked for stealing cigarettes. He also dropped out of university. He's also had gaps between jobs. 

But he's got a good job. I don't know how much he earns but he paid £730k for his house. So how does someone like that manage to get a good job?

Jesus wept.  I don't know.  I don't know the man and I don't care. Probably he is good at making money for whoever he works for.  If you care, ask him.  
I'm sorry but based on this thread I would not employ you in any capacity.  Just stop, and think about what people have said to you.

MalMonroe

sharpe106 said:

As others have said if you can explain why nobody cares, its when you can't as there is usually a reason why you have not worked, either lazy, prison, mental health etc etc.

That is very black and white of you. There may be other reasons and nobody has to disclose them. And under the Equality Act 2010, an employer cannot refuse to interview or appoint anyone who has gaps in their employment record either.

AW618

MalMonroe said:

sharpe106 said:

As others have said if you can explain why nobody cares, its when you can't as there is usually a reason why you have not worked, either lazy, prison, mental health etc etc.

That is very black and white of you. There may be other reasons and nobody has to disclose them. And under the Equality Act 2010, an employer cannot refuse to interview or appoint anyone who has gaps in their employment record either.

I am absolutely 100% sure that there is no law saying a company cannot refuse to appoint anyone who has gaps in their employment record.  I have a gap of three weeks in mine several years ago and if what you say is true, Amazon would have to appoint me as CEO if I asked them to.
If there is such a law, and I have not heard of it, then I am sure it says something like "solely due to gaps in their employment record", and that is so toothless as to be worthless.  It never would be solely because of that anyway; if you wanted them enough you'd overlook it.  And even if it was it would be thunderously easy to say it wasn't.

k12479

MalMonroe said:
There may be other reasons and nobody has to disclose them. And under the Equality Act 2010, an employer cannot refuse to interview or appoint anyone who has gaps in their employment record either.

Where does the Equality Act 2010 make reference to gaps in employment?

donnajunkie

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

theoretica said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

theoretica said:

Planet_Switzerland

The answer is I don't know. Yes I am assuming it because I'm not getting offered a job.

Offering a possible thought here - you will know if it feels like it fits you.  When recruiting the company will be looking for a number of different criteria and score candidates against them (either formally, or informally). One or more specific technical abilities, management experience, communication, fitting straight into the company structure... that sort of thing - probably mostly what they ask for in the job advert.  They then need to choose between candidates who are decent at all of these (say they were scored at BBBB on 4 criteria) and candidates who were better at some things than others ( say ABBC).  If in the interview the ABBC candidate persuades them the C doesn't matter and can rapidly be improved then the B candidate gets told it went to someone better at criterion 1.  If candidate ABBC doesn't persuade them the C doesn't really matter (or BBBB candidate pulls some As out of their hat - it isn't just how well one candidate does) then ABBC is told that the job went to someone better in criterion 4.  Yes the interviewers knew this was weaker when they made the interview invitation, but they felt the candidate was worth a chance because of other strengths.

Well the company structure is probably a place where I fall down. I don't want to work for a company with a similar structure to ours, if one even exists, because that's half the problem. How do I persuade someone that I can adapt to what seems like a better structure without slagging my company off?

I would say you need to find a time to address this head on - don't not mention it as though you hope they won't have noticed, because they will have and you can't lower their concerns if you don't at least briefly mention it. But you also don't want to say so much about it that it seems to be a big problem for you.  It's not slagging off your current employer to praise something about the company you are applying to.  Also I think 'structure' will be a shorthand for concern about things which your current job hasn't had you doing, but the new one would.  So you do want to think about your examples that show you can do those things and make sure you include them in the interview. 

So if you were a mechanic and all the cars you fixed went straight to the scrapyard, how would you show you're capable of getting a car back on the road?

I know it sounds silly, but that's what my job is the equivalent of and I really don't want to say what I do as it's a specialised job which puts me in danger of being identified.

I'd say I fixed the cars.  If they were scrapped after I had fixed them, that is none of my concern.  I fixed them and they were roadworthy.  At that point, stop telling the story.

What if they asked what happened to the cars after your fixed them?

Why would they ask that?  You fixed them and returned them to the person who asked you to fix them.  No mechanic knows or cares what happens to cars as long as they don't come back to him with the same problem. And why does it matter if they were scrapped, tell them they were scrapped, but they were in fully working order.  There's presumably some reason they were scrapped, unless your company are just lunatics, in which case they wouldn't still be in business.  The interviewers aren't going to care that they were scrapped, why do you thinik they would?

My company are just lunatics and it's only a matter of time before they go out of business. At a recent interview I talked about a project I started some point in 2018 and the plug got pulled at the start of this year. I didn't mention the latter, but they did ask what the outcome of the project was and I said it was still a work in progress, so they asked to to talk about a project that did have an outcome.

They have been in business for years by your account.  You might want to consider that they do have some idea what they are doing.

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

Planet_Switzerland said:

AW618 said:

I am not interested in any of that, sorry.  You said you are bad at interviews.  How do you  think this manifests itself?  If the answer is "I don't know", then say so.  Are you just assuming it because you are not getting offered a job?
Why are you harping on about the shortcomings of your current company? They are not the ones interviewing you.  I presume you have the sense not to do this at interviews; but you present your current job in a positive light.  If your point is that your current company doesn't let you exercise the skills required for the jobs you are applying for, then you are applying for the wrong jobs.  To be honest that's what it looks like to me, rather than you being bad at interviews, so if you think you are bad at interviews, say why.

The answer is I don't know. Yes I am assuming it because I'm not getting offered a job.

I'm harping on about the shortcomings of my current company because yes my talent is being wasted. I do present my current job in a positive light which is a challenge in itself.

If I'm applying for the wrong jobs then what are the right jobs?

How would I know?  It might help if you answer the question I asked - is it the case that you feel your company is not allowing you to get useful experience in the jobs you are applying for?

Yes, that's something I've felt since day one. 

It's been the equivalent of fixing someones car, but then the customer decides they don't want the car back. I've tried filling in the gaps in my experience over the years the best I can, but then more gaps start appearing. Its like there's some sort of secret knowledge that I need to know, but I don't know what it is.

Does that answer your question?

Yes.  Then I would suggest you start applying for jobs which you are experienced and qualified for.  There is no point going for things that you feel you should have been getting experience for and then telling them at the interview that no, you haven't done any of that.

Where would I find these jobs? 

It would be like a mechanic looking for a job where all the cars you fix go straight to the scrapyard. Nobody would have such a job because it's pointless.

If I look at the person specification on the last job I applied for, I match each criteria on paper. 

Again, how the bloody hell would I know?  You won't say what you do, and you say it is a specialised field, so I wouldn't know even if you did.
But if, as you seem to be saying, you have a job title of "ferret wrangler" but you are not wrangling any ferrets and are saying so at interview, then it's hardly surprising you are not getting ferret wrangling jobs.  Whatever you are doing, apply for jobs doing that.

OK a real example. Years ago at a previous company, there was a 50 something man who'd been there 20 years. His job was to create something specific for our in-house software. We were the only company that had such a thing, I doubt any other jobs doing the same thing existed. 

Maybe he was happy doing that, but to me it was a waste of a career. Yet I find myself in the same trap because I've never seen a job description that matches my job in reality. I've had interviews at all our competitors which is as similar as you're going to get, but not similar enough it seems.

You seem hung up on what it is you do, rather than how you do it.  Whatever the software was for, it was presumably a transferable skill that he used to create it.  Of course if he was using 20 year old skills they wouldn't be much sought after elsewhere (although in some cases he could make an absolute killing contracting).  Is this your problem?  Are you a software developer with outdated skills?  This is very much a solvable problem

No I'm not a software developer. It is true to say I can use transferable skills to do other things within my field, but that's what I'm not being given the chance to do. I'm not saying I'm good at everything, but it's true to say there are some things that I've had no prior knowledge of that I've got very good at very quickly because I can use my transferable skills to do it. The question is how do I convince the interviewer that?

You tell them. There has to be some outcome.  There are milestones.  But unless you sat there for two years doing nothing, you managed to achieve something. Nobody can give you specifics as you keep on clouding everything with bad analogies, and anyway, working out the best way to present what you have done is your problem.  You have been given as good advice as you could hope for under the circumstances and all you seem to want to do is complain about how it doesn't apply  to you, and how nobody is giving you specific answers, despite you not giving them any specific information. 
If you honestly think your company is not giving you opportunities then you are not experienced enough for the jobs you are applying for.  That isn't their fault. You didn't have such things in previous job either, or you would be using them as examples.   If the job you have is not to your liking stop taking their money and apply for something else somewhere else that you are experienced enough to get.  You might well have to accept lower salary and a position lower on the ladder.  It actually sounds to me like your current company are valuing you above the market rate; you need to recognise that.

In the same way companies like BHS had been around for years, it's best days are behind them and the latest regime are running the company into the ground. Jobs are being cut and more cuts are on the way.

I have no complaints about peoples advice on here, I happen to think there have been some good points. 

I'm definitely not being paid above the market rate. There are people in my occupation who are making 6 figure salaries and I'm not getting anywhere near that, nor am I applying for jobs that pay anywhere near that.

My time at the company can more or less be split into 2. The first few years I was the only one in my department who worked in my area so I had to teach myself everything and do what I thought needed to be done. It served a purpose, I won awards for my work and was highly regarded by a lot of people. I did however wonder whether what I'd done was relevant for getting a new job. The last few years I've been working in a department where I'm only allowed to do work that's been signed off. Most of the work that does get signed off eventually amounts to nothing. Furthermore I don't get to do things like presenting or going to external meetings anymore and I like that sort of thing.

I am tempted to just quit my job in the hope it gets my out of this negative mindset.

What do you think?

I think you should think for yourself and make your own decisions.  You are the only one with sufficient information to have a worthwhile opinion.  

I made the decision to leave at the start of 2018. If I'd have been offered a job then I would have left.

When I turned 16 I was still doing a paper round and started applying for part time jobs, 2 months later I decided to quit my paper round because I was too old to still be doing it, gave a weeks notice and had a job interview on the last day of my paper round which I was offered the next day. 

I reluctantly went back to the part time job I did prior to uni during uni breaks as it was guaranteed work, then one summer decided to not go back and try for something else. Stayed in work all summer in higher paying jobs.

My initial decision to stay at my company for as long as I have was a bad one. I can't make anyone give me a job, but nobody can stop me from quitting the one I'm in. 

A friend of mine told me yesterday that he quit his previous job because he ended up hating it so much.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

No. I don't see why you think I would be interested in any of that rambling.
 And I don't see where you are going to, either.  Again, have you tried applying for jobs that carry lower salaries and lower responsibilities, as it looks like people don't think you are worth what your current company are paying you, and you don't seem to think you are able to make any sort of case to them that you are.

I was telling you about decisions I've made.

Why? No, actually, don't tell me.

A lot of jobs I do apply to don't have an advertised salary or even specify how much experience they require, so for all I know I could be. Even the LinkedIn levels can be misleading, I've seen entry level jobs that require over 5 years experience and senior level jobs that only pay £25k. 

What makes you think I'm being overpaid?

The fact that all the jobs you apply for don't want to take you on. Of course there could be other reasons.

I haven't had a payrise for 4 years and even when I got my payrise my manager at the time conceded it was still a bit on the low side for someone of my experience.

Also why do you think I'd stand a better chance of getting a job with lower salaries and lower responsibilities? I've been told on a couple of occasions at a job interview that the job would probably be a step down for me, even though it pays more.

Everyone would stand a better chance of getting a job with a lower salary. If you can't get what you want, you change your goal.  But there you go, there's your other reasons. You have a job description that doesn't match your experience, you are applying for jobs with the same job description, you can't get them. Apply for jobs that match what you actually do, or start telling interviewers you actually do what you think you are supposed to do, whether you can "prove it to them" or not. Now, that's really enough from me on this. If I am wrong, then I am wrong, because I don't have the information you do, but if you think I am just please stop asking me questions. I don't care enough about you to waste any more of my time telling you the same thing over and over again.

OK let's get back to the original point of this thread. I was thinking it was becoming a bit too much about me.

Someone I worked with at a supermarket when I was a student got sacked for stealing cigarettes. He also dropped out of university. He's also had gaps between jobs. 

But he's got a good job. I don't know how much he earns but he paid £730k for his house. So how does someone like that manage to get a good job?

Jesus wept.  I don't know.  I don't know the man and I don't care. Probably he is good at making money for whoever he works for.  If you care, ask him.  
I'm sorry but based on this thread I would not employ you in any capacity.  Just stop, and think about what people have said to you.

You might know him. You might even be him.

Are you a hiring manager? Would you be willing to hire someone who got sacked for stealing cigarettes, dropped out of university and had gaps on their CV?

people usually stay quiet about negative things wherever possible. It is highly unlikely that they tell employers about being sacked for stealing or about dropping out of uni. People often fib a bit to hide gaps as well.

curtis122

The main issue I come across with gaps are agencies. I work on a temporary basis so its expected there will be gaps in my employment. Temps, contractors etc thats how we work but I have encountered a lot of agencies that seem to expect you to be in conintious employment and yes agancies thats called a 'permananet' role but I work on temporary roles! They seem to be really suprised the fact that 6 months ago I was not working for 2 months. Some agencies also see it as an opportunity to get references which they have no intenetion of using as 'References' just leads who they will bother constantly citing the reason they need them as because there is a gap. 

I once had an agent question me as they were 'concerned' as to why my job history was made up of a number of jobs just 3 months and 6 months and had gaps when the job they were recruiting for and looking for was a temp to do a 2 week job! They knew I worked temporary roles as it states it on my CV and I told them. Maybe it was expected everyone to have a solid 10 year continous work history to do the 2 week role????!!!   

Also I've been working now for over 15 years and I've learnt even more now than ever that its just one big game that you just have to play whether its with agencies at the interview you just need to play the game sometimes you win sometimes you lose. When I go to interviews I say the same things over and over and have preset answers to some questions that I know I will get asked and some of the answers are scenarios that never exisited or eeven happened, its just what they want to hear a lot of the time just using the right buzz words can work.