MSE has closed the Money Saving Arms.

HornetSaver

WillimS2020 said:

HornetSaver said:

A shame, not something I welcome, but understandable. 

Personally, I'll take a few days' timeout to let this outcome feed through in terms of people considering the future nature of their interaction with the forums, but then get back to the reason I joined in the first place, the moneysaving. I think the one big negative about DT - not the MS Arms Forum itself which I would hope returns quickly with a "no religion or politics" rule, but DT in particular - is that it does have the effect of sucking people away from other forums, which for almost everyone is surely the reason they signed up in the first place.

I think I can understand why they have been closed, it was turning nasty, shame because some real good regulars and interesting topics, the reporting was getting out of hand so I suspect it left the MSE team with no other option but to close, they couldn't possibly monitor all the reports they were being inundated with. 

In my opinion the problem right now, is things get to boiling point too quickly. Things that previously could have taken weeks or months of building up for someone in good standing to potentially snap and say something beyond the pale... can happen in hours or days now. That's a reflection on neither DT, MSE or individual forumites, but external factors that have existed for the past several years, combined with the circumstances of the past three months, were unfortunately a perfect storm.

Quasar

Cornucopia said:

If people are pining for The Arms experience, why not set up your own forum?

A few of us did, a while ago, to take pressure off mse for those users who wanted to discuss more freely (though as freely as to break common decency and sensibility rules), but guess what, peeps STILL preferred to come on mse and whinge. The forum is still there, with nothing happening for two years. People get only what they are prepared to work at. 

WillimS2020

Cornucopia said:

If people are pining for The Arms experience, why not set up your own forum?

I think it will lose MSE custom, I used the discussion board but I also gained lots of tips from MSE, PPI, energy switching, sky deals and so on, this site has to operate as a business, the Money Saving Arms is just a perk that we will miss, not sure I will use this site purely for money saving tips, it will just get boring. 

Quasar

Fairy_Cross_The_Mersey said:

Quasar said:

Cornucopia said:

If people are pining for The Arms experience, why not set up your own forum?

A few of us did, a while ago, to take pressure off mse for those users who wanted to discuss more freely (though as freely as to break common decency and sensibility rules), but guess what, peeps STILL preferred to come on mse and whinge. The forum is still there, with nothing happening for two years. People get only what they are prepared to work at. 

If people here don't know it's name, how can we find it?

It is not my imtention to get people to join it. It's been dormant for 2 years, and as administrator now with other priorities, I have no wish to resurrect it. In actual fact, there have been other forums started as mse offshoots and they all went the same way.

tghe-retford

Mrs_Arcanum said:

Herzlos said:

_mayonnaise_ said:

TheNickster said:

For those suffering withdrawal symptons try this:-
https://forums.digitalspy.com/categories/general-discussion-forums

Wow, a user friendly forum. What a contrast with this MSE shambles!

They even have a long running Dominic Cummings thread that didn't need to be deleted every other day.

And no lame messages about closing forums because they're busy because of Covid.

I registered.

Absolutely, it certainly seems like an improvement. I'm pretty much just here because the other forum I used banned all politics discussion and it provided a better view outside of my bubble, but since digitalspy seems to be able to have politics threads that don't vanish it may be a better home.

If it is any help, DS General Discussion forum leans right, Politics forum is more LW. Chatter is the Arms equivalent of A-Z type threads. 

The forum that banned me for supporting "hate speech". Considering the feedback I gave to the moderators about the direction of their forum, I don't think I would ever be welcome back there, even if they hosted an amnesty for previously banned members. Nothing offensive or a tirade of foul language, just an uncomfortable truth that guaranteed me a permanent ban. Frankly after that episode, I would never want to go back anyway.

The problem is, when it comes to discussing politics, current affairs or radio, outside of social media, its pretty much Digital Spy or bust. Websites are closing down their comment sections (unless they've got the money to fend off libel lawsuits) and social media are permanently banning people who have the wrong opinions. There are obviously other websites but they're far too small and feel more like echo chambers with a few people (I am a member of a website which allows discussion of politics but there are very few people on there). And therein lies one of the problems with the "just start your own website" argument - it's very difficult to gain traction, afford the cost of hosting and expansion and if someone says something they don't like on their website, its trivial for them to go to your web host and have your service suspended for abuse. A large website with a financial backing can fend off these threats, your average person however, will not.

The days where the Internet allowed like minded people and even those with opposing views to discuss ideas and engage in the open arena of ideas is going. We're slowly transitioning into a closed Internet where you consume a diet of fixed content pre-approved by large multinational conglomerates and large businesses instead of individuals being able to engage and contribute to the digital ecosystem as it has been in the last few decades. Maybe this is part of "the new normal" I keep hearing about?

[Deleted User]

waamo said:

Given the inevitable drop in site traffic you have to wonder if this forum will last much longer. It seems to be limping along with fewer and fewer regular members posting.

Hope not! 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻

WillimS2020

tghe-retford said:

Mrs_Arcanum said:

Herzlos said:

_mayonnaise_ said:

TheNickster said:

For those suffering withdrawal symptons try this:-
https://forums.digitalspy.com/categories/general-discussion-forums

Wow, a user friendly forum. What a contrast with this MSE shambles!

They even have a long running Dominic Cummings thread that didn't need to be deleted every other day.

And no lame messages about closing forums because they're busy because of Covid.

I registered.

Absolutely, it certainly seems like an improvement. I'm pretty much just here because the other forum I used banned all politics discussion and it provided a better view outside of my bubble, but since digitalspy seems to be able to have politics threads that don't vanish it may be a better home.

If it is any help, DS General Discussion forum leans right, Politics forum is more LW. Chatter is the Arms equivalent of A-Z type threads. 

The forum that banned me for supporting "hate speech". Considering the feedback I gave to the moderators about the direction of their forum, I don't think I would ever be welcome back there, even if they hosted an amnesty for previously banned members. Nothing offensive or a tirade of foul language, just an uncomfortable truth that guaranteed me a permanent ban. Frankly after that episode, I would never want to go back anyway.

The problem is, when it comes to discussing politics, current affairs or radio, outside of social media, its pretty much Digital Spy or bust. Websites are closing down their comment sections (unless they've got the money to fend off libel lawsuits) and social media are permanently banning people who have the wrong opinions. There are obviously other websites but they're far too small and feel more like echo chambers with a few people (I am a member of a website which allows discussion of politics but there are very few people on there). And therein lies one of the problems with the "just start your own website" argument - it's very difficult to gain traction, afford the cost of hosting and expansion and if someone says something they don't like on their website, its trivial for them to go to your web host and have your service suspended for abuse. A large website with a financial backing can fend off these threats, your average person however, will not.

The days where the Internet allowed like minded people and even those with opposing views to discuss ideas and engage in the open arena of ideas is going. We're slowly transitioning into a closed Internet where you consume a diet of fixed content pre-approved by large multinational conglomerates and large businesses instead of individuals being able to engage and contribute to the digital ecosystem as it has been in the last few decades. Maybe this is part of "the new normal" I keep hearing about?

I agree, but you have to draw the line when a reputable media site such as this one is allowing it to be used as a 'platform' to promote either centre/-far left or right advertising.    

These sites are legally bound to follow rules, these were clearly being broken in the Money Saving Arms aspect, It is totally unacceptable to use sites likes these or media sources to 'promote' your political agendas or bias, hence they are now closed. 

tghe-retford

WillimS2020 said:

tghe-retford said:

Mrs_Arcanum said:

Herzlos said:

_mayonnaise_ said:

TheNickster said:

For those suffering withdrawal symptons try this:-
https://forums.digitalspy.com/categories/general-discussion-forums

Wow, a user friendly forum. What a contrast with this MSE shambles!

They even have a long running Dominic Cummings thread that didn't need to be deleted every other day.

And no lame messages about closing forums because they're busy because of Covid.

I registered.

Absolutely, it certainly seems like an improvement. I'm pretty much just here because the other forum I used banned all politics discussion and it provided a better view outside of my bubble, but since digitalspy seems to be able to have politics threads that don't vanish it may be a better home.

If it is any help, DS General Discussion forum leans right, Politics forum is more LW. Chatter is the Arms equivalent of A-Z type threads. 

The forum that banned me for supporting "hate speech". Considering the feedback I gave to the moderators about the direction of their forum, I don't think I would ever be welcome back there, even if they hosted an amnesty for previously banned members. Nothing offensive or a tirade of foul language, just an uncomfortable truth that guaranteed me a permanent ban. Frankly after that episode, I would never want to go back anyway.

The problem is, when it comes to discussing politics, current affairs or radio, outside of social media, its pretty much Digital Spy or bust. Websites are closing down their comment sections (unless they've got the money to fend off libel lawsuits) and social media are permanently banning people who have the wrong opinions. There are obviously other websites but they're far too small and feel more like echo chambers with a few people (I am a member of a website which allows discussion of politics but there are very few people on there). And therein lies one of the problems with the "just start your own website" argument - it's very difficult to gain traction, afford the cost of hosting and expansion and if someone says something they don't like on their website, its trivial for them to go to your web host and have your service suspended for abuse. A large website with a financial backing can fend off these threats, your average person however, will not.

The days where the Internet allowed like minded people and even those with opposing views to discuss ideas and engage in the open arena of ideas is going. We're slowly transitioning into a closed Internet where you consume a diet of fixed content pre-approved by large multinational conglomerates and large businesses instead of individuals being able to engage and contribute to the digital ecosystem as it has been in the last few decades. Maybe this is part of "the new normal" I keep hearing about?

I agree, but you have to draw the line when a reputable media site such as this one is allowing it to be used as a 'platform' to promote either centre/-far left or right advertising.    

These sites are legally bound to follow rules, these were clearly being broken in the Money Saving Arms aspect, It is totally unacceptable to use sites likes these or media sources to 'promote' your political agendas or bias, hence they are now closed. 

Google this week pulled the ability for two political websites to be funded by advertising this week because of comments made regarding Black Lives Matter within the websites comments section. One website removed all of its ability for viewers to comment and Google deemed the matter resolved for the said website.

Unless you have big money to pay the best lawyers and run your website costs without advertising revenue, its going to be impossible for any website to run any comments sections. I mentioned a forum I use earlier. They run no advertising but its purely run on the owners back. I know of a social media network which has to rely on subscription fees because of their free speech stance and the constant legal threats they get. Your average Joe doesn't stand a chance when the ad revenue dries up, the cease-and-desist letter arrives or the DMCA notification lands in their inbox.

tghe-retford

I would also assume that the Funny Money and Discussion Time forums being read only but still available to view is an oversight and one that will be rectified shortly?

Cornucopia

Realistically, a small relatively balanced, relatively well-behaved forum with tens rather than thousands of members is unlikely to attract attention from anyone sinister.    There are some social media PAYG sites that can simplify set-up and funding.    There's the possibility of self-funding from the outset to avoid dependency on squeamish advertisers (and the costs are such that it would be a micro-payment sized contribution).