More Police woes

Comms69

Deleted User said:

I dont know but we had the police out last night for the neighbours very late at night.  There has been all manner of domestics going on. They rung my intercom saying let us in for door no xx, don't worry we don't need to speak to you. Kind of hope it was the neighbour pranking. 

Happens all the time, as obviously you dont want to alert a potentially violent person that the police are there, but also several minutes away.

SeaVixen

sassy-one said:

The question I have is, if the Police said to you we will come knocking on your door day and night until we get a response, bearing in mind they have no criminal investigation live (confirmed) and no warrant, could this be viewed as intimidation and harassment by a member of law enforcement?

Why don't they want to let the police in?

I understand that the police (quite deservedly) don't have the best reputation in certain communities, and that it will feel like an invasion of privacy. However it seems like a lot of this could be solved by letting the police check on the welfare of the person they want to speak to. If they are consistently found safe and well, then the police will be more inclined to believe that these are hoax calls and attempt to do something about the situation. 

As things currently stand, the police are receiving multiple reports of someone being physically abused and held against their will, and the person who owns the property won't let the police in to check. Doesn't sound great. 

Comms69

SeaVixen said:

sassy-one said:

The question I have is, if the Police said to you we will come knocking on your door day and night until we get a response, bearing in mind they have no criminal investigation live (confirmed) and no warrant, could this be viewed as intimidation and harassment by a member of law enforcement?

Why don't they want to let the police in?

I understand that the police (quite deservedly) - what does that mean?? don't have the best reputation in certain communities, and that it will feel like an invasion of privacy. However it seems like a lot of this could be solved by letting the police check on the welfare of the person they want to speak to. If they are consistently found safe and well, then the police will be more inclined to believe that these are hoax calls and attempt to do something about the situation. 

As things currently stand, the police are receiving multiple reports of someone being physically abused and held against their will, and the person who owns the property won't let the police in to check. Doesn't sound great. 

That's nonsense. The police either have power to enter, or they dont. Refusal doesnt come into it.

SeaVixen

@Comms69   In general the police do not have the right to enter a person’s house or other private premises without their permission. However, they can enter without a warrant: when in close pursuit of someone the police believe has committed, or attempted to commit, a serious crime, or to sort out a disturbance, or if they hear cries for help or of distress, or to enforce an arrest warrant, or if invited in freely by the occupant
 https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/law-and-courts/legal-system-s/police-s/police-powers-to-stop-and-search-enter-private-property-and-seize-goods-s/#h-police-powers-to-enter-your-home-or-other-private-property

If the reports aren't specific enough (because they're hopefully a hoax) for them to seriously believe a crime is being committed, then the police cannot force entry. However it won't stop them wanting to check to make sure! 


Regarding the "what does that mean?"- if this was a genuine question, then the short version is that that there are communities in the UK which would seek to limit their contact with police because of historical discrimination. If you want to learn more, I'm part way through reading this from the Runnemede Trust, which is really interesting and so far very objective. 

If it wasn't a genuine question and was an expression of disagreement, then I don't think we should usurp this thread with that discussion. Even if you disagree with it, it may still be a factor in someone not wanting the police in their home.

Comms69

SeaVixen said:

@Comms69   In general the police do not have the right to enter a person’s house or other private premises without their permission. - that's disingenuous and inaccurate. The police have lots of powers to enter. Including breach of the peace and s.17 of pace. However, they can enter without a warrant: when in close pursuit of someone the police believe has committed, or attempted to commit, a serious crime, or to sort out a disturbance, or if they hear cries for help or of distress, or to enforce an arrest warrant, or if invited in freely by the occupant
 https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/law-and-courts/legal-system-s/police-s/police-powers-to-stop-and-search-enter-private-property-and-seize-goods-s/#h-police-powers-to-enter-your-home-or-other-private-property
- those are just examples, and frankly not all encompassing. 

If the reports aren't specific enough (because they're hopefully a hoax) for them to seriously believe a crime is being committed, then the police cannot force entry. However it won't stop them wanting to check to make sure! Suspect, not believe. Reasonable suspicion. 


Regarding the "what does that mean?"- if this was a genuine question, then the short version is that that there are communities in the UK which would seek to limit their contact with police because of historical discrimination. If you want to learn more, I'm part way through reading this from the Runnemede Trust, which is really interesting and so far very objective. 

If it wasn't a genuine question and was an expression of disagreement, then I don't think we should usurp this thread with that discussion. Even if you disagree with it, it may still be a factor in someone not wanting the police in their home.

It was a genuine question as to what you were referring to. 
I havent suggested the OP should let them in. I literally stated the police either have powers to enter, or they dont. 

SeaVixen

Comms69 said:

I havent suggested the OP should let them in. I literally stated the police either have powers to enter, or they dont. 

I agree you weren't suggesting that. Though the examples you mention were covered in the examples under "various statutes". 

In this case it looks like the police don't have grounds to demand entry, or they would have done so already. 
My point was that not letting them in when asked (as the OP has suggested is currently happening) looks awfully suspicious, and will not be helpful if they want to attempt to convince the police that these calls are a hoax. 

Comms69

SeaVixen said:

Comms69 said:

I havent suggested the OP should let them in. I literally stated the police either have powers to enter, or they dont. 

I agree you weren't suggesting that. Though the examples you mention were covered in the examples under "various statutes". 

In this case it looks like the police don't have grounds to demand entry, or they would have done so already. 
My point was that not letting them in when asked (as the OP has suggested is currently happening) looks awfully suspicious, and will not be helpful if they want to attempt to convince the police that these calls are a hoax. 

Yes but the examples arent comprehensive. For example the police can enter any property if they have reasonable suspicion (not belief) that someone wanted for an indictable offence is present. (theft is an indictable offence, which many people wouldnt say is serious)

I agree that if they had both reasonable suspicion and the necessary criteria, they would simply have gone in. 

sweetsand

The police are acting in good faith I'm  safely assuming this.
The police are not getting a response, therefore they need a response.
The police are doing their duty to serve and protect.
If I was in your mates shoes, I'd meet them for an open and frank
chat and if someone has nothing to hide, it will end after that.

OP, I hope I've not misunderstood you