PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.
We're aware that some users are experiencing technical issues which the team are working to resolve. See the Community Noticeboard for more info. Thank you for your patience.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Set of terms in Deeds for new build, can anyone help?

Options
Hi all,
We are due to have  video call next week with our conveyancing solicitors to discuss queries we have with the deeds that we have been provided with. However, I wondered if anyone would be willing to help explain a few of them in 'lay person' terms if I post on here?
«1345

Comments

  • davidmcn
    davidmcn Posts: 23,596 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    You can post them here if you want, but the whole point of employing a solicitor is that they explain these things to you in lay person's terms, not leave you having to ask people on web forums.
  • buel10
    buel10 Posts: 469 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts
    I understand. I just wanted a head start on it so I can't be confused by him (easier than you think!)
  • buel10
    buel10 Posts: 469 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts
    eddddy said:

    There's probably no harm in posting them here. Not all the comments you get here will be correct, so it's still worth checking them with your solicitor.

    I guess you just need to be prepared for a few aggressive, belittling replies (because replies like that seem to sometimes earn more 'thanks') - but it's best to just ignore those, rather than taking them personally or getting into arguments.
    eddddy, this is exactly what I felt and nearly stopped me asking the question. It's a shame this forum CAN (not all the time) be like that. I really appreciate the help you and davidmen posted. Thank you, both.
  • OldMusicGuy
    OldMusicGuy Posts: 1,768 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 15 June 2020 at 4:52PM
    Is this to do with restrictive covenants, maintenance charges and rentcharges etc.? If so, ask away here. There are a number of posters who are quite knowledgable on that topic. Also, search this forum, there are quite a lot of threads on this topic.

    If this is the subject matter, you will get a number of people posting "I don't know why people buy new builds, they must be mad". But hopefully you can just ignore them.... ;)
  • buel10
    buel10 Posts: 469 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts
    edited 18 June 2020 at 11:24PM
    Is this to do with restrictive covenants, maintenance charges and rentcharges etc.? If so, ask away here. There are a number of posters who are quite knowledgable on that topic. Also, search this forum, there are quite a lot of threads on this topic.

    If this is the subject matter, you will get a number of people posting "I don't know why people buy new builds, they must be mad". But hopefully you can just ignore them.... ;)
    Thank you so much for the great advice. OK then, you asked for it  ;))
    I have oodles that I don't understand so, in the hope that someone might be able to help (and this might be helpful for future readers), here are some that I don't understand the meaning of (my questions in bold, non-italic and in brackets):

    12.1.11 Any covenant by the Transferee not to do an act or thing shall
    be deemed to include an obligation not to do or permit any such acts to be done
    (I have no idea what this means?)

    12.2 Rights granted for the benefit of the property
    The Property is transferred together with the rights in common with the Transferor and all other persons who have or may in future have the like rights SUBJECT in each case where there is a shared use the Transferee contributing a fair proportion as appropriate toward the cost and maintenance renewal and repair thereof:
    12.2.1 Right of way: the right to pass and repass with or without
    vehicles (but in the case of any footpath on foot only) at all times and for all purposes connected with the use and occupation of the Property as a private dwelling but not for
    any other purpose;
    12.2.1.1 over and along the Estate Roads until they become
    maintainable at public expense;
    (My questions for the above would be:
    a) I won't lie, 12.2 has really got me foxed - I don't understand this.
    b) Who usually decides it needs repairing in these sort of scenarios? 
    c) 12.2.1.1 - We still haven't had verification that these roads have been adopted by the local council - something to be concerned about?)
  • davidmcn
    davidmcn Posts: 23,596 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    buel10 said:
    Is this to do with restrictive covenants, maintenance charges and rentcharges etc.? If so, ask away here. There are a number of posters who are quite knowledgable on that topic. Also, search this forum, there are quite a lot of threads on this topic.

    If this is the subject matter, you will get a number of people posting "I don't know why people buy new builds, they must be mad". But hopefully you can just ignore them.... ;)
    12.1.11 Any covenant by the Transferee not to do an act or thing shall
    be deemed to include an obligation not to do or permit any such acts to be done
    (I have no idea what this means?)
    There are things you're prohibited from doing. That also means you're responsible if somebody under your control does them (members of your household, tenants, contractors, etc).
    12.2 Rights granted for the benefit of the property
    The Property is transferred together with the rights in common with the Transferor and all other persons who have or may in future have the like rights SUBJECT in each case where there is a shared use the Transferee contributing a fair proportion as appropriate toward the cost and maintenance renewal and repair thereof:
    Some of your property rights are shared with other owners. You need to pay a share of the costs of any relevant repairs etc.
    12.2.1 Right of way: the right to pass and repass with or without
    vehicles (but in the case of any footpath on foot only) at all times and for all purposes connected with the use and occupation of the Property as a private dwelling but not for
    any other purpose;
    12.2.1.1 over and along the Estate Roads until they become
    maintainable at public expense;
    (My questions for the above would be:
    a) I won't lie, 12.2 has really got me foxed - I don't understand this.
    b) Who usually decides it needs repairing in these sort of scenarios? 
    There'll probably be a management company to look after any communal areas of the estate and a service charge. Hasn't that been mentioned already?
    c) 12.2.1.1 - We still haven't had verification that these roads have been adopted by the local council - something to be concerned about?)
    They're not likely to be adopted (if at all) at least until the development is finished, so in the meantime maintenance is the reponsibility of the house owners (via the management company as I said). Obviously it should take a while before a newly-laid road actually needs any maintenance.
  • buel10
    buel10 Posts: 469 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts
    edited 19 June 2020 at 9:48AM
    davidmcn said:
    buel10 said:
    Is this to do with restrictive covenants, maintenance charges and rentcharges etc.? If so, ask away here. There are a number of posters who are quite knowledgable on that topic. Also, search this forum, there are quite a lot of threads on this topic.

    If this is the subject matter, you will get a number of people posting "I don't know why people buy new builds, they must be mad". But hopefully you can just ignore them.... ;)
    12.1.11 Any covenant by the Transferee not to do an act or thing shall
    be deemed to include an obligation not to do or permit any such acts to be done
    (I have no idea what this means?)
    There are things you're prohibited from doing. That also means you're responsible if somebody under your control does them (members of your household, tenants, contractors, etc).
    **Thank you!
    12.2 Rights granted for the benefit of the property
    The Property is transferred together with the rights in common with the Transferor and all other persons who have or may in future have the like rights SUBJECT in each case where there is a shared use the Transferee contributing a fair proportion as appropriate toward the cost and maintenance renewal and repair thereof:
    Some of your property rights are shared with other owners. You need to pay a share of the costs of any relevant repairs etc.
    **Who decide this - worked out between them / yourselves?
    12.2.1 Right of way: the right to pass and repass with or without
    vehicles (but in the case of any footpath on foot only) at all times and for all purposes connected with the use and occupation of the Property as a private dwelling but not for
    any other purpose;
    12.2.1.1 over and along the Estate Roads until they become
    maintainable at public expense;
    (My questions for the above would be:
    a) I won't lie, 12.2 has really got me foxed - I don't understand this.
    b) Who usually decides it needs repairing in these sort of scenarios? 
    There'll probably be a management company to look after any communal areas of the estate and a service charge. Hasn't that been mentioned already?
    **Absolutely not, in fact, they specifically said there is nothing like this. 
    c) 12.2.1.1 - We still haven't had verification that these roads have been adopted by the local council - something to be concerned about?)
    They're not likely to be adopted (if at all) at least until the development is finished, so in the meantime maintenance is the reponsibility of the house owners (via the management company as I said). Obviously it should take a while before a newly-laid road actually needs any maintenance.  
    **This is now a concern.

    (my comments / further questions next to '**')
  • OldMusicGuy
    OldMusicGuy Posts: 1,768 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 19 June 2020 at 9:51AM
    I'll add a couple of things to David's excellent answers.

    Road adoption by the LA - nothing in itself to worry about if they are not being adopted. However, if they are not adopted by the LA, this will increase the annual maintenance charges that the whole development will have to share, because all the residents will be responsible for maintaining the roads. In the short term there won't be much in the way of additional costs (because the roads will be new), but you will have to contribute each year to a "reserve fund" that will gradually build up and will be used for  major repairs (if these are needed) at some point in the future. 

    The developer will know if the roads are going to be adopted because there will be a Section 38 agreement between them and the LA if they are. We are moving to a development which is half-finished and there is a Section 38 in place which shows all roads and footpaths will be adopted by the LA when the development is finished. Our developer provided us with a copy of the documentation for this, and 12.2.1.1 sounds like the intention is that the LA will adopt the roads. So get confirmation of this.

    Management Company and maintenance charges - this is one of the biggest issues you may face and you have not mentioned this. You need to find out who will own the freehold of the common areas, what type of management company will be in place to manage the common areas, how it is able to charge fees for it services, and how annual maintenance charges are calculated.

    The best situation is where there is a residents management company, which means the residents own the freehold between them and they are responsible for managing the common areas. This situation is rare. Most likely, the developer will retain the freehold of the common areas and will therefore be able to appoint a third party management company, who will charge you fees and all costs relating to maintaining the common areas. Some (probably most) of these third party management companies are awful, they provide a poor service and look for ways to fleece the residents. So you need to understand what your exposure is to maintenance charges and management fees, how these are calculated and what rights the freeholder has when management costs are not paid.
  • davidmcn
    davidmcn Posts: 23,596 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 19 June 2020 at 9:55AM
    buel10 said:
    davidmcn said:
    buel10 said:
    Is this to do with restrictive covenants, maintenance charges and rentcharges etc.? If so, ask away here. There are a number of posters who are quite knowledgable on that topic. Also, search this forum, there are quite a lot of threads on this topic.

    If this is the subject matter, you will get a number of people posting "I don't know why people buy new builds, they must be mad". But hopefully you can just ignore them.... ;)
    12.1.11 Any covenant by the Transferee not to do an act or thing shall
    be deemed to include an obligation not to do or permit any such acts to be done
    (I have no idea what this means?)
    There are things you're prohibited from doing. That also means you're responsible if somebody under your control does them (members of your household, tenants, contractors, etc).
    **Thank you!
    12.2 Rights granted for the benefit of the property
    The Property is transferred together with the rights in common with the Transferor and all other persons who have or may in future have the like rights SUBJECT in each case where there is a shared use the Transferee contributing a fair proportion as appropriate toward the cost and maintenance renewal and repair thereof:
    Some of your property rights are shared with other owners. You need to pay a share of the costs of any relevant repairs etc.
    **Who decide this - worked out between them / yourselves?
    12.2.1 Right of way: the right to pass and repass with or without
    vehicles (but in the case of any footpath on foot only) at all times and for all purposes connected with the use and occupation of the Property as a private dwelling but not for
    any other purpose;
    12.2.1.1 over and along the Estate Roads until they become
    maintainable at public expense;
    (My questions for the above would be:
    a) I won't lie, 12.2 has really got me foxed - I don't understand this.
    b) Who usually decides it needs repairing in these sort of scenarios? 
    There'll probably be a management company to look after any communal areas of the estate and a service charge. Hasn't that been mentioned already?
    **Absolutely not, in fact, they specifically said there is nothing like this. 
    c) 12.2.1.1 - We still haven't had verification that these roads have been adopted by the local council - something to be concerned about?)
    They're not likely to be adopted (if at all) at least until the development is finished, so in the meantime maintenance is the reponsibility of the house owners (via the management company as I said). Obviously it should take a while before a newly-laid road actually needs any maintenance.  
    **This is now a concern.

    (my comments / further questions next to '**')
    Common repairs would be decided among the people affected. So if it's a shared fence between you and your neighbour, it's you and your neighbour who need to decide. If it's something shared by the whole development (like a private road) then it's everyone collectively. Unless there is some other mechanism described.

    This is all normal stuff.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 350.8K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453.4K Spending & Discounts
  • 243.7K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 598.5K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 176.8K Life & Family
  • 256.9K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.