Phase 1 & Phase 2 Eligibility and payment periods (someone Fact check me)

justwhat

calcotti said:

Jeremy535897 said:

I don't understand why your business has to be adversely affected on or after 14 July when the grant presumably relates in part to June, but that's what it says.

I can’t see anything that ties the first grant to being adversely affected in a particular time period, it seems to me therefore that if you are adversely affected prior to 14th July you claim the first grant even though the payment is nominally for March to May.

So only phase 2 has a time period? 14th July onward's  and payment periods are irreverent ?
So phase 1 was for June also? (does not sound correct lol )
And remember Phase 1 application was claimable after the "payment period"  eg march april may (and you got to claim in May)
Would make more sense if it said 14th june for phase 2

calcotti

justwhat said:

calcotti said:

Jeremy535897 said:

I don't understand why your business has to be adversely affected on or after 14 July when the grant presumably relates in part to June, but that's what it says.

I can’t see anything that ties the first grant to being adversely affected in a particular time period, it seems to me therefore that if you are adversely affected prior to 14th July you claim the first grant even though the payment is nominally for March to May.

So only phase 2 has a time period? 14th July onward's  and payment periods are irreverent ?
So phase 1 was for June also? (does not sound correct lol )
And remember Phase 1 application was claimable after the "payment period"  eg march april may (and you got to claim in May)
Would make more sense if it said 14th june for phase 2

My understanding is that the first grant can be claimed up to 13th July.
As quoted in my earlier reply https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-a-grant-through-the-self-employment-income-support-scheme#how-to-claim

If you’re eligible and your business has been adversely affected you must make your claim for the first grant on or before 13 July 2020.

Jeremy535897

Yes. To be able to apply for the first grant, the business has to have been adversely affected by coronavirus at some time up to the date of claim (which cannot be later than 13 July). To be able to apply for the second, the business has to have been adversely affected in the period 14 July to the date of the claim (August will be the earliest date). 

Carolnee

Could it not also mean they are opening the claim system early again, on the 14th of July to claim the second grant.

Jeremy535897

Carolnee said:

Could it not also mean they are opening the claim system early again, on the 14th of July to claim the second grant.

It's possible, because it should be a much easier process this time.

jimkelly

justwhat said:

calcotti said:

.

I think this actually means that if someone were adversely affected in June only they could apply for the first grant provided they did so by 14th July (but not the second).

Ok i get that , but the payment is not for june. Its for march april may ?

Who cares when it's from?

If you were materially affected in Mar/Apr/May, you claim the first one.
If you are materially affected after July 14th, you claim the second one.
If you were materially affected both times, you claim both times.
If you weren't materially affected either time, then you do not claim.  It's not rocket science.

justwhat

jimkelly said:

justwhat said:

calcotti said:

.

I think this actually means that if someone were adversely affected in June only they could apply for the first grant provided they did so by 14th July (but not the second).

Ok i get that , but the payment is not for june. Its for march april may ?

Who cares when it's from?

If you were materially affected in Mar/Apr/May, you claim the first one.
If you are materially affected after July 14th, you claim the second one.
If you were materially affected both times, you claim both times.
If you weren't materially affected either time, then you do not claim.  It's not rocket science.

Your example - from june - july 13th if effected you cannot claim. .... "It's not rocket science." lol
not just me Basil also makes the point lol 
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/chancellor-should-be-held-to-account-re-2nd-seiss

Jeremy535897

justwhat said:

jimkelly said:

justwhat said:

calcotti said:

.

I think this actually means that if someone were adversely affected in June only they could apply for the first grant provided they did so by 14th July (but not the second).

Ok i get that , but the payment is not for june. Its for march april may ?

Who cares when it's from?

If you were materially affected in Mar/Apr/May, you claim the first one.
If you are materially affected after July 14th, you claim the second one.
If you were materially affected both times, you claim both times.
If you weren't materially affected either time, then you do not claim.  It's not rocket science.

Your example - from june - july 13th if effected you cannot claim. .... "It's not rocket science." lol
not just me Basil also makes the point lol 
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/chancellor-should-be-held-to-account-re-2nd-seiss

If you have not been affected until today, you could not have claimed the first SEISS, but if you are affected between now and 13 July, you can put in that claim. The first grant covers those affected up to 13 July, and the second covers those affected in the period 14 July to when the grant applications close. Those affected in both periods claim both grants. Basil's point is that there is arguably no grant referable to the period 1 June to 13 July, because the first grant was said to be for March to May, and where is the logic in the date of 14 July if the second grant is for June to August?

calcotti

Jeremy535897 said:....and where is the logic in the date of 14 July if the second grant is for June to August?

Isn’t this just a consequence of the government previously announcing that 13th July would be the end date of the original SEISS application process. 

Jeremy535897

calcotti said:

Jeremy535897 said:....and where is the logic in the date of 14 July if the second grant is for June to August?

Isn’t this just a consequence of the government previously announcing that 13th July would be the end date of the original SEISS application process. 

I am sure it is, but that doesn't mean it has any logic. The sense of the first grant was that all you had to do (on this particular issue) was show that your business had suffered adverse consequences by the time you claimed. That is a simple question of fact. It either had, or it hadn't. Once you start putting in dates where you know what happened both sides of the date, all sorts of questions arise. For example, my employee X was off with coronavirus in May and June. The guidance says I can get the first SEISS grant. But a consequence of his absence might also be that a customer he hoped to get a contract from in June to do in August found someone else to do the job instead. Can I count that earlier event as also adversely affecting post 13 July?