PCP issues after death

4sibbs

I am posting for a family member who lost her young husband to COVID 19 on April 12th, his car was on a PCP he died intestate with no estate (no life insurance so she is left with a large mortgage). Barclays Finance have acknowledged she is not liable for the debt and it has been passed to their agent Phipps-Cohen who have also been told about her situation and initially said they did not need proof that there was no estate. As instructed she notified the DVLA  and moved the car onto her drive as they said it could not be on the public highway, almost 2 months on they have still not collected it and have now sent her a letter which says 'further to your request to Voluntary Surrender  the motor vehicle' with an attached form to complete confirming the condition of the vehicle, the letter says the sale  price of the vehicle will depend on the actual condition and the indicative value is £6,349.00 advising it will be auctioned, and on the last page she is asked to sign as the executor of the estate stating she understands the estate will remain liable for any shortfall.
She has never requested voluntary surrender, she is not executor as there is no estate and has told them she isn't going to sign the form as it could compromise her. Their response is due to the legal restraints surrounding collection of the vehicle it cannot be collected unless she signs and completes the form, she is therefore in a stalemate situation with the vehicle taking up room on her drive. Any advise would be appreciated Thank you

Grumpy_chap

This OP would benefit from some clarity and structure to aid any assistance.
Even though there was no will and the husband died intestate, he still had an estate that he left behind.  The estate is all the property that the deceased left behind.  It may be very little, maybe nothing more than the contents of his wardrobe, but it still amounts to his estate.
Someone has to be the administrator of that estate.  It is the administrator that should resolve all these issues.

4sibbs

There is no administrator just his widow who has been left with the debt of over £181,000.00 mortgage, not sure what you mean by clarity and structure the original post details the situation. Guidance from other forums's suggests she moves the car to the public highway as she is basically storing it for the finance company and whilst on her property it is not costing them to tax and insure it. It is not her car she has no ownership rights it became the property of the finance company after she was told to notify the DVLA of her husband's death, therefore not her responsibility to advise them of it's condition, it hasn't moved for 2 months how can she be expected to sign a document on it's condition and agree for it be auctioned. She could accidentally scratch it if she does the inspection they are asking for and by signing the document she may become liable.

TripleH

That would make the widow administrator by default (??) She needs to make a list of all her husband's assets, any money he has in bank accounts in only his sole name, expensive watches etc and a list of all liabilities such as the mortgage debt, credit cards etc.
If she can prove that individually he was insolvent then that should be sufficient to advise the finance company. The issue is how joint assets are treated. This might be better posted on wills and probate as there could be someone who can advise better to deal with this once and for all.
Re the car, I'd contact the finance company and advise them that she is not authorised or insured to store vehicles on her property and that unless they remove it in 2 weeks, she will have it moved onto the public highway and it will cease to be her liability or charge them for storage. She could send the keys in the post (recorded delivery after 2 weeks?) but check. She shouldn't be driving it on the hihway if she is not insured.

jonesMUFCforever

My condolence.
Was there by any chance a works pension or death in benefits scheme?
Are you sure that there was no life insurance?
Some mortgages have a term and condition that you have to have it to cover the debt?

Nebulous2

jonesMUFCforever said:

My condolence.
Was there by any chance a works pension or death in benefits scheme?
Are you sure that there was no life insurance?
Some mortgages have a term and condition that you have to have it to cover the debt?

Works pension / death in benefits are likely to be outside the estate. 

Life insurance is often written in trust, so it could be outside the estate. 

The house and savings / investments may be an issue however. 

4sibbs

Thanks all for your replies, I can confirm there was definitely no life insurance due to health issues they were either refused or premiums would have been more than they could afford. We have offered to send proof of no estate to Barclays Finance but they said it was not necessary, there was also an outstanding amount on a credit card, he only had a very small amount in his account there was a small pension but none of this including the governments contribution was enough to even pay for the funeral the shortfall had to be borrowed from family members, plus they have not been allowed to inter him yet which will be a further cost. With regard to the mortgage this was changed into her sole name and of course they would always take precedence over any other debtor needless to say her priority is not to have the house repossessed which is a real possibility. Barclays Finance have been given notice to collect the car otherwise it will be moved to the public highway and then becomes their liability, they have had free storage for 10 weeks and have not had to tax or insure it, despite telling her she was not responsible for the debt she had been expected to sign a document which has lots of loop holes e.g. fully appraise the vehicle after it had been cleaned to allow HER to arrange to have unacceptable wear & tear rectified - expected to sign a vehicle condition report by way of agreement of assessment on collection - and agree as executor to instruct them to arrange for it to be sold at auction on her behalf - to agree the estate will remain liable for any shortfall.  We believe is she completed and signed the forms it would compromise her this whole system needs to highlighted and reviewed Phipps-Cohen appear to be the go to company as they deal with deceased accounts but it seems to us their only role is recover whatever funds they can by any means I believe they are a commission led company which is fine when there is an estate but in my relatives case this has caused her extreme worry and  distress during the most difficult time of her life. Sorry for the long post and thanks again for the comments I will update you when/if this gets resolved.

MinuteNoodles

4sibbs said:

With regard to the mortgage this was changed into her sole name and of course they would always take precedence over any other debtor needless to say her priority is not to have the house repossessed which is a real possibility.

Is there not a life insurance policy to cover the mortgage? Pretty much every lender requires the mortgagees to have life insurance in place to cover the outstanding mortgage.

normanna

Hi 4sibbs

I think you're struggling a bit with what estate means.  Triple H and Grumpychap above have commented on this.  The widow will need to prove there is nothing in the estate to pay the debt - there is an estate it might have very little or nothing in it so saying there is no estate is incorrect, I think you're trying to say there are no funds in the estate to pay the debt.  It is very likely that once the finance company accept there is no funds to pursue the debt then the car will be uplifted and the case closed.

As suggested earlier, his widow needs to contact his employers as there may well be a death in service benefit to pay out.  Obviously this isn't guaranteed but definitely need to check this out.

Clive_Woody

4sibbs said:

 'further to your request to Voluntary Surrender  the motor vehicle' with an attached form to complete confirming the condition of the vehicle, the letter says the sale  price of the vehicle will depend on the actual condition and the indicative value is £6,349.00 advising it will be auctioned, and on the last page she is asked to sign as the executor of the estate stating she understands the estate will remain liable for any shortfall.

I would write to their agent and state that you did not request voluntary surrender as you have no financial interest in their car or hold any contract with them giving the right to do so anyway. As he died intestate then there is no will and therefore no executor so that should also be explained to them and make it clear his wife is not acting as executor and has no intention of doing so. Provide the details you have showing the estate has no assets. Request they remove their vehicle from her drive within 14 days.

chanz4

Whos name on the land registry doc is it just hers or his and hers?