House divided into two flats - leasehold confusion

greatcrested

JeffMason said:

I've found a property that is of interest and am attempting to get as much information about lease arrangements as possible before making an offer. It's a house split in two with an upstairs and downstairs flat. The EA says it's leasehold with over 100 years remaining and no service charges with maintenance done ad hoc.

I've looked up details via land registry and found mention of a seperate freehold for whole property, which makes sense. But then there is also seperate freehold and leasehold documents for both A and B flats. Does this mean that the EA is wrong and the lease is actually share of freehold or do the Land Registry just list both even if one isn't applicable? Pic of details below.

No - share of freehold would normally still show only one freehold title - it's just that that freehold would be owned either by two peope (owners of each flat), or by a company (that in turn was owned by the flat owners).

I suspect you'll find duplication - ie the freehold title number for Flat A will be the same as the freehold Title number for Flat B (and also the same as the freehold title for the building).

Or prehaps not....

If each flat is genuinely freehold, then they are probably unmorgageable (and hard to sell).

In your position, I'd fork out the multiple £3 fees to download them all and take a look. Are the title numbers all different? Are the registered owners all different? 5 titles is £15 (£30 if you want all the Plans too), and frankly if you are reluctant to spend that, then maybe property ownership is not for you!

JeffMason

greatcrested said:

JeffMason said:

I've found a property that is of interest and am attempting to get as much information about lease arrangements as possible before making an offer. It's a house split in two with an upstairs and downstairs flat. The EA says it's leasehold with over 100 years remaining and no service charges with maintenance done ad hoc.

I've looked up details via land registry and found mention of a seperate freehold for whole property, which makes sense. But then there is also seperate freehold and leasehold documents for both A and B flats. Does this mean that the EA is wrong and the lease is actually share of freehold or do the Land Registry just list both even if one isn't applicable? Pic of details below.

No - share of freehold would normally still show only one freehold title - it's just that that freehold would be owned either by two peope (owners of each flat), or by a company (that in turn was owned by the flat owners).

I suspect you'll find duplication - ie the freehold title number for Flat A will be the same as the freehold Title number for Flat B (and also the same as the freehold title for the building).

Or prehaps not....

If each flat is genuinely freehold, then they are probably unmorgageable (and hard to sell).

In your position, I'd fork out the multiple £3 fees to download them all and take a look. Are the title numbers all different? Are the registered owners all different? 5 titles is £15 (£30 if you want all the Plans too), and frankly if you are reluctant to spend that, then maybe property ownership is not for you!

It's leasehold for both flats. Freeholder is mentioned in freehold title and then different leasehold owners (and same freeholder) are mentioned in the leasehold documents. The ground floor lease mentions "the part tinited blue on the title plan only the ground floor flat is included" and I assume (I didn't get the title plans, just the register) this is referring to the back garden, which only the downstairs flat has access to.

So now I have the title basics, I can get the details via that 0C2 form. Thanks for the advice!

JeffMason

greatcrested said:

JeffMason said:

greatcrested said:

Reading the lease should tell you exactly how repairs and other costs are managed and paid for. It may be that the current 'owners' (of the leases?) simply arrange things amicably as and when, which may work fine whilst they cooperate, but you need to know what the actual legal requirements are in case there's disagrement, or a change of ownrship to someone less lexible.

The lease may be obtainable from the Land Registry (form OC2 £7), or will become available during conveyancing.

It's unlikely costs would fall on the freeholder, though responsibility for undertaking the repairs (eg new roof) probably falls on him, with th cost then passed on to the leaseholders in a way specified in the lease.

I'm going to try this for a place I am interested in. I've downloaded the OC2 form but it asks for the "title number" which I don't have and am unlikely to get a straight answer out of the estate agent. Any ideas if I can find this elsewhere or if it can be left blank?

No the EA won't know (or care!!).

Yes, without the Title number I doubt the Land Registry will send you the (right) lease.

Search online here and download the leasehold title (£3) for the property. Bingo. Title number.

Ok. So I have the title number. Can I just check what I am asking for to get the lease details I am after - is it the leasehold register? And it then asks for the date of the document, is this the one mentioned under "A: Property Register"?  I just don't want to fill in the form incorrectly and have them send it back.

It seems I have to post it and include an actual cheque too! Digging out the cheque book now...