House divided into two flats - leasehold confusion

Tiglet2

Land Registry:
https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/eservices/FindAProperty/view/QuickEnquiryInit.do

JeffMason

martindow said:

JeffMason said:

I've emailed the estate agent asking for some more details. I expect them to be rolling their eyes about... now.

Bear in mind the agent can't be relied upon for accuracy.  They can only pass on what the vendor tells them (which may contain various degrees of truth) and are likely to gloss over anything problematic.  EAs work for the vendor and want to make sales ...

That's becoming clearer every day but I shall keep it in mind. I don't know why they can't just say 'I don't know' and 'if you want that information you'll have to go to this site'. Why do they always just give vague details or make things up?

JeffMason

Tiglet2 said:

Land Registry:
https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/eservices/FindAProperty/view/QuickEnquiryInit.do

What do I need to get from here? And how are these different from the £7 land registry details someone linked me to a few days ago?

greatcrested

JeffMason said:

Tiglet2 said:

Land Registry:
https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/eservices/FindAProperty/view/QuickEnquiryInit.do

What do I need to get from here? And how are these different from the £7 land registry details someone linked me to a few days ago?

That link will get you the property Title and tell you who owns the leasehold title (or freehold Title if you buy that). £3 each to download online. It will refer to related documents, one of which is the lease itself.

The previous link (£7) will get you the lease itself, but can only be purchased via post (paper copy).

JeffMason

greatcrested said:

JeffMason said:

Tiglet2 said:

Land Registry:
https://eservices.landregistry.gov.uk/eservices/FindAProperty/view/QuickEnquiryInit.do

What do I need to get from here? And how are these different from the £7 land registry details someone linked me to a few days ago?

That link will get you the property Title and tell you who owns the leasehold title (or freehold Title if you buy that). £3 each to download online. It will refer to related documents, one of which is the lease itself.

The previous link (£7) will get you the lease itself, but can only be purchased via post (paper copy).

So the £3 version won't give me details of how the lease is split, who is responsible for what etc? 

eddddy

JeffMason said:
So the £3 version won't give me details of how the lease is split, who is responsible for what etc? 

You could ask the seller if they'll show you a copy of their latest annual service charge accounts. That would probably give you far more helpful information than a copy of the lease.

However, I suspect the problem might be... if you don't fully understand how service charges work, and the EA might not fully understand how service charges work, and the seller might not fully understand how service charges work -  so you might all end up confusing each other. (That's the type of situation I come across very frequently.)

hazyjo

JeffMason said:

hazyjo said:

Your buildings insurance won't cover things that wear out and need replacing such as the roof. It's fine if people have spare cash or access to spare cash. But if they're not savers and there's a major roof issue, or the gutters need replacing, or unblocking, or there's a prob with drains that's not covered on insurance, where does the money come from? It's always handy to have a pot of money ready for such times.

Good point! But I guess this is an issue if I buy a freehold house too. This is what a survey would discover though, right? And I could negotiate the price if anything major might need doing soon, or just drop out of the purchase.

This has probably been covered now, but just wanted to say these things aren't always found by a surveyor. They might not be able to conduct a building survey as might not have access to the whole building. If a freehold house, it would be your property to worry about. If a flat, what if your neighbour who is upstairs or downstairs doesn't have savings or is cash-strapped, what if something needs doing?

Do you pay? Wait for the issue to deteriorate? Other problems to arise from ignoring the initial problem? You probably need joint buildings insurance. What if they won't pay that? If there's a freeholder and or management company, that's their problem. If a 'share of freehold' conversion, it's up to both neighbours to sort everything. There will probably be times when you don't agree or can't afford something.

JeffMason

eddddy said:

JeffMason said:
So the £3 version won't give me details of how the lease is split, who is responsible for what etc? 

You could ask the seller if they'll show you a copy of their latest annual service charge accounts. That would probably give you far more helpful information than a copy of the lease.

However, I suspect the problem might be... if you don't fully understand how service charges work, and the EA might not fully understand how service charges work, and the seller might not fully understand how service charges work -  so you might all end up confusing each other. (That's the type of situation I come across very frequently.)

So how do I avoid that? 

JeffMason

hazyjo said:

JeffMason said:

hazyjo said:

Your buildings insurance won't cover things that wear out and need replacing such as the roof. It's fine if people have spare cash or access to spare cash. But if they're not savers and there's a major roof issue, or the gutters need replacing, or unblocking, or there's a prob with drains that's not covered on insurance, where does the money come from? It's always handy to have a pot of money ready for such times.

Good point! But I guess this is an issue if I buy a freehold house too. This is what a survey would discover though, right? And I could negotiate the price if anything major might need doing soon, or just drop out of the purchase.

This has probably been covered now, but just wanted to say these things aren't always found by a surveyor. They might not be able to conduct a building survey as might not have access to the whole building. If a freehold house, it would be your property to worry about. If a flat, what if your neighbour who is upstairs or downstairs doesn't have savings or is cash-strapped, what if something needs doing?

Do you pay? Wait for the issue to deteriorate? Other problems to arise from ignoring the initial problem? You probably need joint buildings insurance. What if they won't pay that? If there's a freeholder and or management company, that's their problem. If a 'share of freehold' conversion, it's up to both neighbours to sort everything. There will probably be times when you don't agree or can't afford something.

So you’re saying share of freehold is potentially the worst way to own a flat? If the people you share a freehold with are wonderful and think exactly as you do, then it’s great. But if they don’t... 

hazyjo

Nope, its often considered a plus. But just saying be careful if there's no service charge and repairs, maintenence, etc are dealt with on an ad hoc basis.

Just be aware. If viewing something where nothing is set up, take a good look round any common parts.

I had two flats, both SoF. First one, we had 10 flats in two large converted Victorian houses. We had regular meetings (usually with dinner and wine round someone's flat) and everyone paid a service charge. No real common parts as we all had our own front doors, but there were steps, the parking area, the (painted) outside of the building, etc. Worked well.

Second one was a Victorian house conversion, one flat up, one down. We didn't have service charges. The downstairs flat would often just paint the downstairs hallway or change a lightbulb. I don't really remember anything major coming up. Again, I was lucky.