Best way to prep for grammar school entry in Year 3

onwards&upwards

maman said:

Probably best we agree to differ. I'm convinced they do it for effect. I'm not talking about people who genuinely explain they find maths difficult, just those who make a flippant remark, almost boasting about it. You don't hear people making similar remarks about not being able to read. 

You have to think about WHY they are doing that.  The messages they’ve received growing up.  

theoretica

onwards&upwards said:

maman said:

Probably best we agree to differ. I'm convinced they do it for effect. I'm not talking about people who genuinely explain they find maths difficult, just those who make a flippant remark, almost boasting about it. You don't hear people making similar remarks about not being able to read. 

You have to think about WHY they are doing that.  The messages they’ve received growing up.  

Exactly - which is why some girls and parents see the insulation from some of this that girls schools can provide as a valuable positive. 

maman

theoretica said:

onwards&upwards said:

maman said:

Probably best we agree to differ. I'm convinced they do it for effect. I'm not talking about people who genuinely explain they find maths difficult, just those who make a flippant remark, almost boasting about it. You don't hear people making similar remarks about not being able to read. 

You have to think about WHY they are doing that.  The messages they’ve received growing up.  

Exactly - which is why some girls and parents see the insulation from some of this that girls schools can provide as a valuable positive. 

Yes, that's more or less where I came in. We can learn a lot from the plus points of girls' schools and try to replicate the best bits.
Thanks both for a very interesting discussion. A bit off topic but I'd like to think that choosing a school isn't that simple. 

Fireflyaway

peachyprice said:

Fireflyaway said:

onwards&upwards said:

Fireflyaway said:

onwards&upwards said:

I find it very weird to keep the sexes apart at school.  Its so artificial.  Isn't learning how to relate to others an important part of growing up?  

School is for learning, not impressing the opposite sex, worrying that boys / girls don't fancy you, fussing over your appearance, having to deal with rejection, unwanted attention etc. 

Sorry, but that's a huge and important part of being a teenager isn't it?  

I don't believe It's mandatory no. If it's possible to remove these aspects from school it provides a better environment in which to learn. I'm not against boys and girls mixing but if distractions / stresses are reduced then learning is easier. I do think times have changed. When I was at school (a mixed comprehensive) there was a bit of messing around by boys and a couple of girls who were more interested in boys than learning but nothing too much. Today even really young kids seem so concerned about appearance, how many 'likes' they have on social media, who is seeing who etc. The number of times I've seen 12 and 13 year old girls posting photos of them in bikinis or skimpy outfits and pouting at the camera. Girls fall out with long standing friends over a boy and lads talking about girls in such a sexualized and disrespectful way. I'm not saying this is the fault of schools. Clearly it's a parental / societal issue as much as anything else. I just think separating the sexes removes some distractions. 
The point about preparing for the financial side reminded me that we had underestimated the extra costs. Uniforms in private schools tend to be more pricey. It cost us around £400 to get the basics. At our child's school there are more trips as well. Probably 4 a year with at least one of those being residential. So far trips have cost anything from £25 for a day to a local historic site to £2300 for a science trip abroad. There have been optional extras to consider such as ski trips, expeditions and sports events so its worth deciding how to deal with those when they crop up. Fees usually also increase annually as well. 

It's naive to think that this behaviour is only confined to mixed sex schools, you cannot stop teenagers interacting with those they don't go to school with, the difference being they will do it more covertly. 

Maybe I didn't explain my stance very well. I'm not saying teenagers should not mix with the opposite sex. Indeed it is very important to learn how to get on with people from all backgrounds / genders / religions etc it's also important to navigate friendship and conflict and understand boundaries in relationships. All I'm saying is if these aspects can be lessened in school by dividing the sexes, it makes for a better learning environment. Why else would some schools take in both boys and girls, allowing them to socialize at break times and trips out but teach them separately? Why go to that effort unless there is something to support it? 

onwards&upwards

theoretica said:

onwards&upwards said:

maman said:

Probably best we agree to differ. I'm convinced they do it for effect. I'm not talking about people who genuinely explain they find maths difficult, just those who make a flippant remark, almost boasting about it. You don't hear people making similar remarks about not being able to read. 

You have to think about WHY they are doing that.  The messages they’ve received growing up.  

Exactly - which is why some girls and parents see the insulation from some of this that girls schools can provide as a valuable positive. 

But they’re often too insulated, and the price is high.  They miss out on really vital stuff and a girl’s is categorically not a way to stop girls facing sexism and the impact of a deeply gendered world.

Madmel

Blimey, this thread has moved on!  I went to a girls' school at 11 after a mixed primary education.  I hated it.  The bitching, not just from the other girls but the horrid staff, the nastiness, the lusting after anything in trousers that came onto the school site...  So much so that when my daughters came along, I told DH that they would never go to a single-sex school unless it was absolutely what they wanted - he agreed.  As I said way back, they went to a mixed state grammar school.  Neither was put off science subjects and their cohorts had equal numbers of boys & girls studying Maths, Physics and Chemistry.  I think lots of girls started Further Maths in DD1's year but several quit before the exam.  She needed it for her Cambridge offer so saw it through to the end.  DD2 was on the new Maths pathway so decided in February of year 13 that she would only take AS FMathe as she was struggling.  She got her A grade and is also studying for a science degree.  What has pleased me most about my DDs' education is the social relationships they have forged.  Over the last week, both have invited old schoolfriends over to sit in our garden & catch up in person.  Both have lovely mixed friendship groups.  At the same age, I did not, and I am still sad about it.

Re Manchester Grammar School: a school friend of mine has 2 DS.  They have had lots of issues of bullying with the older so moved him several times.  He took the 11+ for MGS and went there for y7.  His younger brother also joined the junior school in y5 then subsequently went into the seniors.  Older son is still bullied there.  They have been in countless times about it. They normally come and stay for a couple of weeks in the summer.  They are not bad lads; they are emotionally immature (mum micromanages everything and has a massive chip on her shoulder about what a hard time they have) and they need reminding about saying please and thank you - they are now 16 & 14! They adore my DDs but they have no idea how to make small talk either with them or us. All they do is say how good they are at things, even when it's something they haven't done before. I don't know whether it's their parents, their school or whatever, but it's really sad. MGS has not been remotely helpful about the older son's medical diagnosis. It just feels like an exam factory with no thought as to their social or emotional development.  My own view is that it is neither the sole responsibility of the school or the family, more a partnership, but one needs to step in if or when the other falls short.  That does not seem to happen.

My friend forwarded the email from the Head about the process for GCSEs this summer because she was devastated when she read it.  It was quite a long way from the information my own school sent out to parents. I calmed her down and told her my understanding of the situation from a teacher's perspective. This was all in the public domain, but she presumed the word of the Head was law.  Her DS1 has now been off school since March.  I have been in touch with him a few times and he has started to learn some new skills at my suggestion: cooking a meal, learning a new language, completing Martin Lewis' OU course! Nothing has come from the school.  Somebody posted the fees further up the thread.  If I'd spent upwards of £100k on my kid's schooling, I would want a damn site more than they seem to have had.

Sorry this is epic!  OP, your kid is still really young.  By all means dream of MGS but go and look at other schools for comparison.  Look at Sale Grammar School - it's mixed, it has the 11+ and it's free!  Maybe MGS gets better results on paper but at what financial and emotional cost?  The school where I work in another part of the country gets results very similar to MGS & the girls' school nearby that I attended but has cost me nothing for my DDs to attend.  This is after all a money saving site...

fred246

Some people seem to think that 'private' always means 'better'. It's very hard to get through to those people that that's not always the case. If a teacher is stood in front of a group of children why does it matter whether the parents or the government pay that teacher? You need to investigate further and especially more than 'league tables' to decide whether it's worth paying substantial sums of money.

peachyprice

maman said:

Probably best we agree to differ. I'm convinced they do it for effect. I'm not talking about people who genuinely explain they find maths difficult, just those who make a flippant remark, almost boasting about it. You don't hear people making similar remarks about not being able to read. 

Absolutely.  My niece is one of them, she thinks it's attractive to appear dumb and vulnerable.
Nothing whatsoever to do with her upbringing.  My cousin and her husband run their own business which they've always wanted the children to eventually take over, they've had a good,  nurtured upbringing and been given every opportunity. 

Nothing to do with schooling either, she and my daughter went through exactly the same schools from yr 3 to 11, my daughter then staying on for yr 12 & 13.

onwards&upwards

peachyprice said:

maman said:

Probably best we agree to differ. I'm convinced they do it for effect. I'm not talking about people who genuinely explain they find maths difficult, just those who make a flippant remark, almost boasting about it. You don't hear people making similar remarks about not being able to read. 

Absolutely.  My niece is one of them, she thinks it's attractive to appear dumb and vulnerable.
Nothing whatsoever to do with her upbringing.  My cousin and her husband run their own business which they've always wanted the children to eventually take over, they've had a good,  nurtured upbringing and been given every opportunity. 

Nothing to do with schooling either, she and my daughter went through exactly the same schools from yr 3 to 11, my daughter then staying on for yr 12 & 13.

So why do you think she feels that way?  Nothing at all to do with the world she's grown up in and all the messages that being attractive IS more important for women?  Do you think she was born behaving that way, or that its genetic?

fred246

We sent our children to a free comprehensive. We saved the cash and said we would use it to pay for tutors if our children needed it. We could target any areas where the school was deficient. In the end we didn't need. My wife recently talked to someone who runs a tutoring agency. She was surprised that most of the children they tutored went to private school. So the parents paid for a private education and then paid for private tutors on top. I think I'd have been a bit fed up paying for both.