I got less then minimum wage for furlough pay

p00hsticks

Uberbeck said:

 I recieve a P60 so the umbrella knows that I am an employee, they cannot claim ignorance, especially from a payroll company.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting here, but as far as I am aware production / receipt of a P60 does not necessarily indicate an employer / employee relationship.

For example - DWP issue P60s for certain benefit claimants, and pension providers to pension recipients.

Uberbeck

Grumpy_chap said:

You would have made the choice to go through the Umbrella Company because they allow you to retain more of the gross earnings than going direct PAYE on the agency's books.  The Umbrella Companies usually advertise on the fact you get to keep more of the gross earnings and that is why you should use them.  You have probably also agreed at some point in time to be paid like self-employed so less PAYE and more dividend / bonus.  

How do you know what the Umbrella Company paid to HMRC is not what is on your paperwork?

You may say the Umbrella Company cannot claim ignorance.  Possibly, nor can you.

We'd really have to see a lot more detail than is appropriate for a public forum to comment more accurately.

I am with an umbrella because my agency does not have a payroll department and they require you to sign up with an umbrella in order to get paid. 

From April 2017 all healthcare workers who work with NHS as their end client cannot be outside IR35. As in we can no longer claim to be self employed or have limited company.

On my online personal tax account it states quite clearly how much is declared by my employer and how much tax HMRC has received. This has also been confirmed when I rung and spoke to HMRC.

I could miss a few pennies here and there from human error however around 20k discrepancy is not difficult to notice. 

As far as ignorance is concerned, I have spent 2 months researching this issue including, speaking to HMRC, ACAS, citizens advice and speaking to an online tax account. I believe this has given me ample time to clue up on the latest information.

I fully understand my situation, the only question which I keep coming back to is now that I spoken to these people what are my options.

Uberbeck

p00hsticks said:

I'm not sure what you are suggesting here, but as far as I am aware production / receipt of a P60 does not necessarily indicate an employer / employee relationship.

For example - DWP issue P60s for certain benefit claimants, and pension providers to pension recipients.

Because of the IR35 business with agency healthcare workers,  I can only be an employer.

Uberbeck

Uberbeck said:

p00hsticks said:

I'm not sure what you are suggesting here, but as far as I am aware production / receipt of a P60 does not necessarily indicate an employer / employee relationship.

For example - DWP issue P60s for certain benefit claimants, and pension providers to pension recipients.

Because of the IR35 business with agency healthcare workers,  I can only be an employer.

Employee

unforeseen

I am guessing the payslip shows pay at NMW and then the rest of it is made up of commission/additional pay or words to that effect. 
I don't know CJRS in enough detail but can commission and payments flagged as additional pay or similar  be included for CJRS calculations? 

This may well explain why op only gets 80‰ of NMW.
Showing NMW plus commission/additional pay is the standard way that umbrellas set out their payslips. There is nothing underhand about the way that umbrellas show their payments and no tax evasion/avoidance as you should find tax/NI payments are correct, not forgetting that you also pay the employers NI. 

Uberbeck

unforeseen said:

I am guessing the payslip shows pay at NMW and then the rest of it is made up of commission/additional pay or words to that effect. 
I don't know CJRS in enough detail but can commission and payments flagged as additional pay or similar  be included for CJRS calculations? 

This may well explain why op only gets 80‰ of NMW.
Showing NMW plus commission/additional pay is the standard way that umbrellas set out their payslips. There is nothing underhand about the way that umbrellas show their payments and no tax evasion/avoidance as you should find tax/NI payments are correct, not forgetting that you also pay the employers NI. 

ACAS, HMRC, citizens advice and an online tax accountant have viewed all the payslips and contracts that have, they all disagree with that. Whether or not the umbrella is acting lawfully is not in question, and the fraud report that I submitted was recommended by those mentioned above.

Uberbeck

Thank you everyone for the time you have taken to reply, I will post back when things have progressed.

Jeremy535897

unforeseen said:

I am guessing the payslip shows pay at NMW and then the rest of it is made up of commission/additional pay or words to that effect. 
I don't know CJRS in enough detail but can commission and payments flagged as additional pay or similar  be included for CJRS calculations? 

This may well explain why op only gets 80‰ of NMW.
Showing NMW plus commission/additional pay is the standard way that umbrellas set out their payslips. There is nothing underhand about the way that umbrellas show their payments and no tax evasion/avoidance as you should find tax/NI payments are correct, not forgetting that you also pay the employers NI. 

I would just add that commission to which the employee is contractually entitled (as opposed to discretionary payments) is included in pay for CJRS purposes.

unoriginal86

For your information, the BBC Moneybox episode named "NHS re-joiners targeted by promoters of tax avoidance schemes" that aired on Saturday 6th of June covered a situation similar to the one you've described. In it, some agencies/umbrellas companies were found to be deliberately under-reporting workers PAYE income to HMRC and taking a large cut of the money that should have been paid in taxes. 

Uberbeck

unoriginal86 said:

For your information, the BBC Moneybox episode named "NHS re-joiners targeted by promoters of tax avoidance schemes" that aired on Saturday 6th of June covered a situation similar to the one you've described. In it, some agencies/umbrellas companies were found to be deliberately under-reporting workers PAYE income to HMRC and taking a large cut of the money that should have been paid in taxes. 

Thanks for the suggestion, I have just listened to the show and written in to the programme about my experience.might write to the MP as well.👍