I got less then minimum wage for furlough pay

Uberbeck

Thanks for your reply yksi, I have suspected fraud for a while now and contacted HMRC about this and they have sent me a form for a correction of P60 which I have passed on to my employer whom then sent me an even more incorrect P60.

I have since then submitted a fraud report to HMRC but have been told because if the pandemic it will take 2-3 months to get looked into. My employer is no longer answering my correspondence and ACAS said because it is a tax matter then there is nothing they can do. 

So I guess the only thing now is.....What do I do now?

sharpe106

Nothing you can do except wait and see. You could see if eligible for any benefits on your new furlough amount, if you have a mortgage and struggling to pay it can see about a mortgage holiday.

Grumpy_chap

Uberbeck said:

 

Yes but what they doing is illegal and I still have had to have 33% taken off of me and it not handed over to HMRC. 

Nothing yet demonstrates the agency / umbrella company have done anything illegal.  They may have used the incorrect interpretation of the rules for CJRS.  Where does the 33% taken off you come from?

Uberbeck

Grumpy_chap said:

Uberbeck said:

 

Yes but what they doing is illegal and I still have had to have 33% taken off of me and it not handed over to HMRC. 

Nothing yet demonstrates the agency / umbrella company have done anything illegal.  They may have used the incorrect interpretation of the rules for CJRS.  Where does the 33% taken off you come from?

What demonstrates as illegal is that the income I have actually received and what is stated on my P60 is completely different, also in the payslip I received it stated that a third of earning went on to tax and NIC but none had been paid to HMRC, I believe every employer has to hand over all the tax and NI that is taken off their employees. So where is the money they have taken from me?

Grumpy_chap

Yes, what you get should align with P60 and pay slips.  I had not picked up that discrepancy.

unholyangel

OP what exactly does your payslips say? 

What was your gross, gross taxable, employees NIC, what is your pension contribution amount/percentage, what is your tax code and what was your net pay? 

Nothing in clear from the information you've given.

For example you only mention pension contributions and not whether these were employee or employer. You also say your employer shouldn't be deducting NIC because it's covered by the government, but you previously referred to it as employer NIC. Which isn't as clear as it could be - employers NIC shouldn't be deducted because it's your employer who should be paying it, not because the taxpayer is covering it. The only time it's usually deducted is where you're really self employed but being paid under an umbrella company. 

I'm just wondering if perhaps you've got your wires crossed and the deductions have been for employee contributions for NIC/pension and not employer. Figures are always a lot easier to understand than someone trying to explain their understanding of it, so if you can provide those, it should help us say one way or another whether it's right.

Grumpy_chap

As part of the agency / umbrella company deductions (it is not clear which you are employed through), do they also show a deduction for their fee / administration costs?

Uberbeck

So let me say this so there is no ambiguity. I am an agency healthcare worker who get work from an agency but is paid through an umbrella, the umbrella is my employer. I should be paid as an employee because it is the ONLY legal way to be paid, I cannot be paid as self employed. I do not get to decide neither does my employer, the government does. I recieve a P60 so the umbrella knows that I am an employee, they cannot claim ignorance, especially from a payroll company. 

My payslip is structured like self-employed where all the money that comes in is put as minimum wage and everything else shared between  PAYE, company tax, employee NIC, employer NIC and app. levy. My net pay (as in what enters my bank account) is 66% of mygross pay (what the agency has sent to them) therefore I have a payslip like a self employed worker but I have all the same percentage of money taken off me as if I am employed, which I am.

I have earned over 30k last tax year and paid 10k in tax and NIC, however HMRC have only received funds and figures that say I have only earned 9k last year and paid less then 1k tax and £0 NIC. Also the company has stopped paying into my NEST pension but still deducting employers pension contributions The umbrella is not answering my email when I send them and when I ring they say the person I need to speak to is not in today, they are never in! 

So conclude;
-HMRC are missing around 8k in tax and NIC from them
-I have lost 18 months towards my state pension
-I have lost 9 months of contributions towards my NEST pension
-My employer has only applied for minimum wage for my furlough pay.

I think that is about as much as I can say other then there is no way my employer is within the law, they know what they are doing and I am not mistaken about this. My original question from this thread is how do I proceed knowing all this information.

Grumpy_chap

You would have made the choice to go through the Umbrella Company because they allow you to retain more of the gross earnings than going direct PAYE on the agency's books.  The Umbrella Companies usually advertise on the fact you get to keep more of the gross earnings and that is why you should use them.  You have probably also agreed at some point in time to be paid like self-employed so less PAYE and more dividend / bonus.  

How do you know what the Umbrella Company paid to HMRC is not what is on your paperwork?

You may say the Umbrella Company cannot claim ignorance.  Possibly, nor can you.

We'd really have to see a lot more detail than is appropriate for a public forum to comment more accurately.

Jeremy535897

Uberbeck said:

So let me say this so there is no ambiguity. I am an agency healthcare worker who get work from an agency but is paid through an umbrella, the umbrella is my employer. I should be paid as an employee because it is the ONLY legal way to be paid, I cannot be paid as self employed. I do not get to decide neither does my employer, the government does. I recieve a P60 so the umbrella knows that I am an employee, they cannot claim ignorance, especially from a payroll company. I understand what this says.

My payslip is structured like self-employed where all the money that comes in is put as minimum wage and everything else shared between  PAYE, company tax, employee NIC, employer NIC and app. levy. My net pay (as in what enters my bank account) is 66% of mygross pay (what the agency has sent to them) therefore I have a payslip like a self employed worker but I have all the same percentage of money taken off me as if I am employed, which I am. I don't understand this. Self employed people don't have payslips. Apprentices aren't paid over £30,000, or is this just a reference to "employers NIC and apprenticeship levy".

I have earned over 30k last tax year and paid 10k in tax and NIC, however HMRC have only received funds and figures that say I have only earned 9k last year and paid less then 1k tax and £0 NIC. Also the company has stopped paying into my NEST pension but still deducting employers pension contributions The umbrella is not answering my email when I send them and when I ring they say the person I need to speak to is not in today, they are never in! Unless you have other income, if you earned £40,000 in 2019/20 you would pay tax of £5,500 and employee's NIC of £3,764, so your tax and NI of £10,000 on something over £30,000 sounds high. If you earned £9,000 in 2019/20 you would pay no tax and about £44 NIC.

So conclude;
-HMRC are missing around 8k in tax and NIC from them
-I have lost 18 months towards my state pension probably not as even on NMW you are over the LEL
-I have lost 9 months of contributions towards my NEST pension
-My employer has only applied for minimum wage for my furlough pay.

I think that is about as much as I can say other then there is no way my employer is within the law, they know what they are doing and I am not mistaken about this. My original question from this thread is how do I proceed knowing all this information.

If I were in your position I would ask ACAS for advice on what to do next, as you have already approached HMRC, and you cannot get hold of the employer.