Shileding a family member, 37 month old toddler and returning to work in retail/supermarket.

sweetsand

sharpe106 said:

A lot of the government advice has very little to do with public safety, if it was things like quarantine would have been implemented immediately,  it is majority political. The government has basically just picked and chosen the bits of advice it gets that it likes, bit like a child at pick and mix. 
Although back to OP I totally understand why you want to but the employer has a business to run, they need the person back or need to replace them. 

I agree but even the "quarantine" is not tonight but some time away EG people coming back from hols did not happen for a while.  Re my OP. its not about me as stated but I can see their point both sides but if you had a child and worked in a supermarket and was a shelf filler and shoppers and even staff leaned over you, etc and you had a vulnerable 37 month old at home, would you not be concerned?  I don't trust this gov or any politician for that matter and I blame all of the other political parties as well as even they are not demanding SAGE papers and we could all see how, why decisions were reached and delayed as in most cases as now, EG wearing of masks in public, why not from today?

kaMelo

sweetsand said:

kaMelo said:

The evidence for wearing masks is minimal at best and what the available evidence shows is that only when social distancing is not possible it "may" help prevent an infected person from passing on the virus. That's it, there is no evidence of any other benefit unless it's an FFP3 mask which will protect wearers and those around them, though they are damned uncomfortable when worn properly and in short supply.

Then there are the negative elements to widespread mask wearing.
People removing the mask to talk, drink, smoke, clear steamed up glasses etc, all putting hands near their face when they otherwise wouldn't, increasing the risk of transmitting the virus from their hands.
Safe disposal of soggy worn masks, going by the state of rubbish strewn around I wouldn't hold out much that suddenly people become socially responsible disposing of masks.


The evidence from Korea and other Asian countries is that testing and contact tracing is the most effective method, not masks. Important thing to note though, In Korea all mobile phone data is logged and available to the Government and health authorities. That's why their tracing system is so effective as they know exactly where everyone is at any given time. Even allowing for the pandemic that's a step too far in Government surveillance as far as I'm concerned and I suspect the majority of people will share that view.

As we do not have a worth contact/trace mask wearing is best. Have you noted the point re mask wearing yeaterday re prublic transport and today ALL hospital workers and ALL those that visit?  Like I have said several times decisions by most govs are political and the public comes last in their thoughts.

Why is it mandatory to wear face covering masks on public transport and all hospitals for ALL from the 15th June and not today?
Think about it and you will have the answer that govs decisions are more political than the safety of the ordinary person on the road.  By wearing a mask in public places, you are protecting the most vulnerable that is if you care about that

Btw,

They are places social distancing is difficult or impossible to achieve, that's the point of implementing it. Just for completeness the mask wearing is only mandated whilst actually ON public transport, not at the station or bus stop prior to the journey, and certainly not just out and about. By definition, hospitals are places where social distancing is impossible as you can't usually look after someone from two metres away.

sweetsand

kaMelo said:

sweetsand said:

kaMelo said:

The evidence for wearing masks is minimal at best and what the available evidence shows is that only when social distancing is not possible it "may" help prevent an infected person from passing on the virus. That's it, there is no evidence of any other benefit unless it's an FFP3 mask which will protect wearers and those around them, though they are damned uncomfortable when worn properly and in short supply.

Then there are the negative elements to widespread mask wearing.
People removing the mask to talk, drink, smoke, clear steamed up glasses etc, all putting hands near their face when they otherwise wouldn't, increasing the risk of transmitting the virus from their hands.
Safe disposal of soggy worn masks, going by the state of rubbish strewn around I wouldn't hold out much that suddenly people become socially responsible disposing of masks.


The evidence from Korea and other Asian countries is that testing and contact tracing is the most effective method, not masks. Important thing to note though, In Korea all mobile phone data is logged and available to the Government and health authorities. That's why their tracing system is so effective as they know exactly where everyone is at any given time. Even allowing for the pandemic that's a step too far in Government surveillance as far as I'm concerned and I suspect the majority of people will share that view.

As we do not have a worth contact/trace mask wearing is best. Have you noted the point re mask wearing yeaterday re prublic transport and today ALL hospital workers and ALL those that visit?  Like I have said several times decisions by most govs are political and the public comes last in their thoughts.

Why is it mandatory to wear face covering masks on public transport and all hospitals for ALL from the 15th June and not today?
Think about it and you will have the answer that govs decisions are more political than the safety of the ordinary person on the road.  By wearing a mask in public places, you are protecting the most vulnerable that is if you care about that

Btw,

They are places social distancing is difficult or impossible to achieve, that's the point of implementing it. Just for completeness the mask wearing is only mandated whilst actually ON public transport, not at the station or bus stop prior to the journey, and certainly not just out and about. By definition, hospitals are places where social distancing is impossible as you can't usually look after someone from two metres away.

Re hospitals, you have delivery people that can social distance as well as admin, so your argument is fundamentally flawed.
It is important that people note the risk does not arise until the 15th of June!  So, today, tomorrow, day after, week after does not pose a risk, so please forgive me for not laughing

poppy12345

sweetsand said:

sharpe106 said:

A lot of the government advice has very little to do with public safety, if it was things like quarantine would have been implemented immediately,  it is majority political. The government has basically just picked and chosen the bits of advice it gets that it likes, bit like a child at pick and mix. 
Although back to OP I totally understand why you want to but the employer has a business to run, they need the person back or need to replace them. 

if you had a child and worked in a supermarket and was a shelf filler and shoppers and even staff leaned over you, etc and you had a vulnerable 37 month old at home, would you not be concerned?

If i had a 3 year old child and i had to continue to work then i would make sure that strict hygiene was in place on returning home from work. This way the risk is very minimum. People do this everyday and continue to work without problems.

kaMelo

sweetsand said:

kaMelo said:

sweetsand said:

kaMelo said:

The evidence for wearing masks is minimal at best and what the available evidence shows is that only when social distancing is not possible it "may" help prevent an infected person from passing on the virus. That's it, there is no evidence of any other benefit unless it's an FFP3 mask which will protect wearers and those around them, though they are damned uncomfortable when worn properly and in short supply.

Then there are the negative elements to widespread mask wearing.
People removing the mask to talk, drink, smoke, clear steamed up glasses etc, all putting hands near their face when they otherwise wouldn't, increasing the risk of transmitting the virus from their hands.
Safe disposal of soggy worn masks, going by the state of rubbish strewn around I wouldn't hold out much that suddenly people become socially responsible disposing of masks.


The evidence from Korea and other Asian countries is that testing and contact tracing is the most effective method, not masks. Important thing to note though, In Korea all mobile phone data is logged and available to the Government and health authorities. That's why their tracing system is so effective as they know exactly where everyone is at any given time. Even allowing for the pandemic that's a step too far in Government surveillance as far as I'm concerned and I suspect the majority of people will share that view.

As we do not have a worth contact/trace mask wearing is best. Have you noted the point re mask wearing yeaterday re prublic transport and today ALL hospital workers and ALL those that visit?  Like I have said several times decisions by most govs are political and the public comes last in their thoughts.

Why is it mandatory to wear face covering masks on public transport and all hospitals for ALL from the 15th June and not today?
Think about it and you will have the answer that govs decisions are more political than the safety of the ordinary person on the road.  By wearing a mask in public places, you are protecting the most vulnerable that is if you care about that

Btw,

They are places social distancing is difficult or impossible to achieve, that's the point of implementing it. Just for completeness the mask wearing is only mandated whilst actually ON public transport, not at the station or bus stop prior to the journey, and certainly not just out and about. By definition, hospitals are places where social distancing is impossible as you can't usually look after someone from two metres away.

Re hospitals, you have delivery people that can social distance as well as admin, so your argument is fundamentally flawed.
It is important that people note the risk does not arise until the 15th of June!  So, today, tomorrow, day after, week after does not pose a risk, so please forgive me for not laughing

And how do you give guidance relating to so many different departments. Much easier to give a blanket statement and include everyone, a kind or herd immunity approach if you will. Many hospital staff have been wearing masks for some time yet still people are getting infected.

If social distancing and regular hand washing and general good hygiene is maintained then face masks offer no extra benefits whatsoever. The only benefits are when those measures cannot be followed and even then the benefit is minimal whilst assuming the wearer does not keep touching it/taking it on and off and disposes of it safely afterwards.

sweetsand

kaMelo said:

sweetsand said:

kaMelo said:

sweetsand said:

kaMelo said:

The evidence for wearing masks is minimal at best and what the available evidence shows is that only when social distancing is not possible it "may" help prevent an infected person from passing on the virus. That's it, there is no evidence of any other benefit unless it's an FFP3 mask which will protect wearers and those around them, though they are damned uncomfortable when worn properly and in short supply.

Then there are the negative elements to widespread mask wearing.
People removing the mask to talk, drink, smoke, clear steamed up glasses etc, all putting hands near their face when they otherwise wouldn't, increasing the risk of transmitting the virus from their hands.
Safe disposal of soggy worn masks, going by the state of rubbish strewn around I wouldn't hold out much that suddenly people become socially responsible disposing of masks.


The evidence from Korea and other Asian countries is that testing and contact tracing is the most effective method, not masks. Important thing to note though, In Korea all mobile phone data is logged and available to the Government and health authorities. That's why their tracing system is so effective as they know exactly where everyone is at any given time. Even allowing for the pandemic that's a step too far in Government surveillance as far as I'm concerned and I suspect the majority of people will share that view.

As we do not have a worth contact/trace mask wearing is best. Have you noted the point re mask wearing yeaterday re prublic transport and today ALL hospital workers and ALL those that visit?  Like I have said several times decisions by most govs are political and the public comes last in their thoughts.

Why is it mandatory to wear face covering masks on public transport and all hospitals for ALL from the 15th June and not today?
Think about it and you will have the answer that govs decisions are more political than the safety of the ordinary person on the road.  By wearing a mask in public places, you are protecting the most vulnerable that is if you care about that

Btw,

They are places social distancing is difficult or impossible to achieve, that's the point of implementing it. Just for completeness the mask wearing is only mandated whilst actually ON public transport, not at the station or bus stop prior to the journey, and certainly not just out and about. By definition, hospitals are places where social distancing is impossible as you can't usually look after someone from two metres away.

Re hospitals, you have delivery people that can social distance as well as admin, so your argument is fundamentally flawed.
It is important that people note the risk does not arise until the 15th of June!  So, today, tomorrow, day after, week after does not pose a risk, so please forgive me for not laughing

And how do you give guidance relating to so many different departments. Much easier to give a blanket statement and include everyone, a kind or herd immunity approach if you will. Many hospital staff have been wearing masks for some time yet still people are getting infected.

If social distancing and regular hand washing and general good hygiene is maintained then face masks offer no extra benefits whatsoever. The only benefits are when those measures cannot be followed and even then the benefit is minimal whilst assuming the wearer does not keep touching it/taking it on and off and disposes of it safely afterwards.

"guidance"? Easy, 'Every staff member that is treating dealing with patients wears a medical grade as stated today and those in the back office wear a face covering or medical grade mask. I've said before, the N75 masks used by front line NHS staff are a lower grade than what most of our builders, decorators use as this gov downgraded this virus as "not very contagious.

"Wearing masks, people getting infected" Where did I say it would protect everyone 1005? I said FYI it would reduce risk and that is a fact. Medical grade masks protect the wearer and person/s around them and face masks more so protect the persons around them but both mitigate risk. I can not be clearer if everyone wore a mask this horrid virus would not have killed so many people. 

So why not wear them from Monday? Why was this ruling not made up given out months ago when Taiwan, Korea etc lowest death rates as they had mask wearing, social distancing  and test/track/etc with hand washing?

Bus drivers were crying out for masks and isolation from passengers, if the public had work masks three moths ago along with drivers etc we would not have the hundred plus dead bus drivers and staff in London.  What is the new scientific evidence of wear masks now?

People are now being told is recent days wearing just a face covering protect others so why are so many people being selfish and not wearing them in shops, public transport etc - if they do not care about their health what about the vulnerable? I blame the lame gov for not enforcing this rule but they had more important things to do EG save their political skin

kingfisherblue

sweetsand said:

kingfisherblue said:

My older son has a shielding letter, followed by a text saying that he needs to stay in until at least 30th June. My younger son was working before being furloughed, but just followed strict hygiene measures. He returns to work next week. Both still live at home. I do the shopping, and again, I follow strict hygiene measures when I come in. I don't wear a mask when I'm out, although the ones that we have ordered arrived yesterday. I'm not an ignorant parasite.

It's possible to return to work as others have said.

Regarding the huge mortgage - have they asked for a mortgage holiday? It may not be a suitable solution for them, but could be wrth considering.

Thank you KS. You must remember the child is a baby, 37 months old and at that age parents worry even more so, that is the caring ones. Children of tht age can't express themselves well and parents fear more than they would for older children usally.
The mortgage hols, thanks but they don't want that as they are using savings and you only pay a lot more interest later.
I think if the young lady was working more than 8 hours a week ie 2 x 4 hours she'd go back and if money was a bigger prob - she wants to retain her job as its next door to where they live ie 3 mins walk.

About wearing masks - people will look back and when the evidence comes out the gov did not advise recommend the wearing of maks - it was for political reasons. Look at y  yesterday, must wear on public transport not from yesterday but 15th June. Today's breaking news - WEAR masks f ace coverings ALL hospital staff and ALL visitors, not from today but 15th June -  IMO ignorance amonst the public is rife as wearing masks by all will certainly reduce the risk  - look at Korea etc and their death rate re Covid.

My son is 22, but still unable to express himself properly. He was born with severe disabilities and had his first four operations at nine hours old. He will always need a substantial amount of care. So I definitely understand about parental concerns and the fear that they have for their children. I was shielding my son before lockdown, due to the severity of his disabilities, including two breathing disorders (asthma and tracheomalacia), and a low immune system.

The suggestion about a mortgage holiday was just that - a suggestion. I'm aware that it would cost more in the long term, but it may have been a suitable option. They are fortunate to have enough savings to fall back on.

Regarding masks and hospital visitors - our local hospitals are not allowing visitors. It was very difficult a couple of weeks ago, when my elderly mum was admitted with heart problems. I care for her as well as for my son (not easy at the best of times, but two different households, both with people shielding, and I'm the primary carer for both,a s well as having to do the shopping, is difficult!). I couldn't visit my mum in hospital at all. I'm not getting into a discussion about politics. I only posted to try to reassure you that people can work whilst having a shielded child, and to give a suggestion about the mortgage.

I don't know if the child receives DLA. If they have an award of middle or high rate care, the mother can claim Carer's Allowance if her earnings are less than £128 a week. This may help if she does not already receive CA.

sweetsand

Thank you Kingfisherblue
The dear 37 month old child looks 100% but has a gentic disorder a very weak immune system and a 3 months suffered from sepsis and was in hospital for 2.5 weeks.  
I'm sorry if I've misunderstood you or you me. I am stressed and have my own woes as per thread on this forum asking re my hsoptial visit in a few days time for a review. I've never had so many colds and thinking about my family and the ignorant that lean ovr people, not social distance and/or wear masks makes me very angry. Even more angry that the opposition has not called to account the gov re putting people first. The wearing of masks if done from early on in March, I'm sure that instead of the at least 50k covid deaths never mind indirect deaths, the rate may have been as low as a 100 EG Korea, Taiwan, etc - even now the gov have sped up the process to return to normal to distract from that man that reads the rules differently from others and so on

Re visitors, i meant, my fault for not being clear i mean people, visitors with appts, 

I wish you ATB and thank you for trying to help.

yksi

Talk about melodrama. It's a three year old, not a 37 month old, time to stop arguing this point as you now just sound ridiculous! This isn't a "baby" as you said, it's a child. And while I'm sure there were medical reasons for the shielding letter, the current situation is that the mother has no reason not to return to work, as she is not the one with the medical situation. She's not unique or so special that the world should make a song and dance for her and treat her like royalty, millions of us have the same situation. Those who can return to work are supposed to be working now and the major supermarkets have put measures into place to protect people as best they can. The mother is not helpless and useless, if she's capable of being a mother then she is capable of washing her hands and changing her clothes and showering as soon as she gets home. And yes, I do know what I'm talking about, I have a child with a heart condition and I work in a supermarket. I know all too well that customers can be selfish and ignorant ****s, all you can do is act like a grownup and use your big girl words - even supermarket workers can use words, like "please don't stand so close to me" or "please give me space", if you're not capable of politely standing up for your own health then best to put in your resignation and don't leave your house. The whole world can't shut down over this virus and we can't all just sit on the sofa. If she wants her job, she needs to work, because there are hundreds of people willing to do that job if she won't.

onwards&upwards

sweetsand said:

kaMelo said:

The evidence for wearing masks is minimal at best and what the available evidence shows is that only when social distancing is not possible it "may" help prevent an infected person from passing on the virus. That's it, there is no evidence of any other benefit unless it's an FFP3 mask which will protect wearers and those around them, though they are damned uncomfortable when worn properly and in short supply.

Then there are the negative elements to widespread mask wearing.
People removing the mask to talk, drink, smoke, clear steamed up glasses etc, all putting hands near their face when they otherwise wouldn't, increasing the risk of transmitting the virus from their hands.
Safe disposal of soggy worn masks, going by the state of rubbish strewn around I wouldn't hold out much that suddenly people become socially responsible disposing of masks.


The evidence from Korea and other Asian countries is that testing and contact tracing is the most effective method, not masks. Important thing to note though, In Korea all mobile phone data is logged and available to the Government and health authorities. That's why their tracing system is so effective as they know exactly where everyone is at any given time. Even allowing for the pandemic that's a step too far in Government surveillance as far as I'm concerned and I suspect the majority of people will share that view.

Why is it mandatory to wear face covering masks on public transport and all hospitals for ALL from the 15th June and not today?

Because that's when all the shops can open, so there will be a spike in the numbers of people taking public transport and the numbers coming into contact with strangers. 

I'm no fan of this government, but that question actually has a simple answer that makes sense.