Solicitor cannot obtain old Planning Permission - what to do?

jumperabv3

I'm getting towards the final stages of buying a property - everything is fine, the property was built around 1996 ...
Now the seller's solicitor doesn't have the original planning permission (nor a copy of this document) - my solicitor told me the following when I asked how important to have this document to hand or not:

For your information, the Local Authority have 10 years to bring enforcement action against the owner of a property for breach of planning conditions. Therefore, from a legal perspective, there is usually minimal concern if the planning permission is over 10 years old. The only concern is that sometimes planning permissions will have subsisting conditions which will affect the use of the property and are ongoing even after construction is finished.

What would you do if you were in my shoes?

• Just go on with the sale ignoring the fact this document is missing because the permission is anyway very old.
• Proceed with the sale and try to obtain the document from the archive of the borough council in charge?
• Do something else?

Would appreciate your feedback. Thanks!

AdrianC

First of those. There's absolutely nowt can be done about any PP breach.

You can, of course, search the LA's site yourself for any PP for the property.

davidmcn

Has anybody bothered trying to get a copy from the council? May even be readily available on their website depending on the council. There is of course zero chance of the council suddenly wanting to enforce anything, even if they were legally able to, it's more a question of satisfying future fussy buyers/lenders.

jumperabv3

AdrianC said:

First of those. There's absolutely nowt can be done about any PP breach.

You can, of course, search the LA's site yourself for any PP for the property.

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a "PP breach"? (i.e. what does PP stand for?)
And I'm not sure what is the LA's site? LA = Letting Agent? I'm not entirely sure I understood.

davidmcn

jumperabv3 said:

AdrianC said:

First of those. There's absolutely nowt can be done about any PP breach.

You can, of course, search the LA's site yourself for any PP for the property.

Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a "PP breach"? (i.e. what does PP stand for?)
And I'm not sure what is the LA's site? LA = Letting Agent? I'm not entirely sure I understood.

PP = planning permission
LA = local authority

jumperabv3

davidmcn said:

Has anybody bothered trying to get a copy from the council? May even be readily available on their website depending on the council. There is of course zero chance of the council suddenly wanting to enforce anything, even if they were legally able to, it's more a question of satisfying future fussy buyers/lenders.

It's not available on their site unfortunately - it's from 1996 ... it's not showing up there. How difficult that is to obtain it? I've asked my solicitor about this and awaiting her reply in regards to this.
Yes, it does sound as if it's only going to be required for some lenders - fussy ones I'd say ... so you basically say forget about it and move on?

DoaM

PP = Planning Permission
LA = Local Authority

anselld

jumperabv3 said:

davidmcn said:

Has anybody bothered trying to get a copy from the council? May even be readily available on their website depending on the council. There is of course zero chance of the council suddenly wanting to enforce anything, even if they were legally able to, it's more a question of satisfying future fussy buyers/lenders.

It's not available on their site unfortunately - it's from 1996 ... it's not showing up there. How difficult that is to obtain it? I've asked my solicitor about this and awaiting her reply in regards to this.
Yes, it does sound as if it's only going to be required for some lenders - fussy ones I'd say ... so you basically say forget about it and move on?

Sometimes you can get older application documents by going into the office in person (if you really want to). 

davidmcn

jumperabv3 said:

davidmcn said:

Has anybody bothered trying to get a copy from the council? May even be readily available on their website depending on the council. There is of course zero chance of the council suddenly wanting to enforce anything, even if they were legally able to, it's more a question of satisfying future fussy buyers/lenders.

It's not available on their site unfortunately - it's from 1996 ... it's not showing up there. How difficult that is to obtain it? 

Generally very easy, you just ask the council and they'll dig it out from their archives. Obviously at the moment that might not be a service they're providing.

Davesnave

My council, who are otherwise quite dozy, now have planning documents on-line going back to at least the 80s. They obviously had them tucked away somewhere, perhaps on microfiche, but they've gradually digitised more over the years. I'll bet the documents you want are there, somewhere. You might have to cross someone's palm with silver to access them, and as davidmcn says, even that might be tricky just now.

eddddy

jumperabv3 said:

Therefore, from a legal perspective, there is usually minimal concern if the planning permission is over 10 years old. The only concern is that sometimes planning permissions will have subsisting conditions which will affect the use of the property and are ongoing even after construction is finished.

As others have said, enforcement action cannot be taken in relation to anything done more than 10 years ago.

But I believe that you will still be bound by any planning conditions attached to planning permission - even if the permission was granted over 10 years ago.

Random examples of planning conditions include:

• Restrictions on Permitted Development Rights (e.g. you're normally allowed to build conservatories, porches, fences etc without planning permission - but that right can be removed by a planning condition.)
• Parking Maintained (e.g. there might be off-street parking or a garage - and you're not allowed to convert / remove it.) 

So, for example, if there's a planning condition that prevents you from building a porch or a fence, and you build one - the council will have up to 4 years to serve an enforcement notice on you.

Similarly, if the current owners have built a porch or put up a fence within the last 4 years (in breach of a planning condition) - the council could serve an enforcement order on you.


Edit to add...
Some planning conditions can be quite obscure. e.g. Windows on the side of the house must only have frosted glass. So if you innocently change the glass to clear glass, you might get an enforcement notice served.