Car tax paper display might be coming back

seven-day-weekend

When we lived in Spain we did not have to display the tax payment (fee  paid to the local council), but we did have to display the fact that the vehicle was MOT'd (fee paid to the Government).  However, you did have to carry all relevant vehicle documents at all times and could be prosecuted if you did not have them.

AdrianC

Mickey666 said:

born_again said:

Even better just add it to the fuel tax. The more you use the car, the more you pay.... Can't avoid that.

Hear hear - the obvious solution.  Fair and difficult (impossible?) to evade.

Far too sensible for it to ever actually happen.

Except it isn't. It's a very narrow viewpoint, based solely on the private car driver's position.

To break even, it'd need about 12p putting on each litre of fuel. Don't forget there's already 58p per litre and VAT on fuel - so at £1.20, that's 20p VAT plus 58p duty = 78p in tax, leaving just 42p for the oil, the refining, the distribution, the marketing, the retailer's margin.

12p doesn't sound a lot, does it...? But now think of the effect on business transportation of goods. And who ends up paying that? You, through shop prices. And then there's the petrol used for non-road use, in mowers and chainsaws etc. Red diesel's available, but not "red petrol". You'd also get in increase in cross-border fuel smuggling, especially near the channel ports and in NI.

born_again

AdrianC said:

Mickey666 said:

born_again said:

Even better just add it to the fuel tax. The more you use the car, the more you pay.... Can't avoid that.

Hear hear - the obvious solution.  Fair and difficult (impossible?) to evade.

Far too sensible for it to ever actually happen.

Except it isn't. It's a very narrow viewpoint, based solely on the private car driver's position.

To break even, it'd need about 12p putting on each litre of fuel. Don't forget there's already 58p per litre and VAT on fuel - so at £1.20, that's 20p VAT plus 58p duty = 78p in tax, leaving just 42p for the oil, the refining, the distribution, the marketing, the retailer's margin.

12p doesn't sound a lot, does it...? But now think of the effect on business transportation of goods. And who ends up paying that? You, through shop prices. And then there's the petrol used for non-road use, in mowers and chainsaws etc. Red diesel's available, but not "red petrol". You'd also get in increase in cross-border fuel smuggling, especially near the channel ports and in NI.

That was the argument used by the motoring bodies and low mileage users years ago when it was mooted in 70' or 80's. Transport companies were in favour of it given just how much they have to pay to keep on trucking. Also haulage companies could be offered tax breaks,

AdrianC

born_again said:
Also haulage companies could be offered tax breaks,

The more "tax breaks" they're given, the more per litre for those who don't get them.

Mickey666

AdrianC said:

Mickey666 said:

born_again said:

Even better just add it to the fuel tax. The more you use the car, the more you pay.... Can't avoid that.

Hear hear - the obvious solution.  Fair and difficult (impossible?) to evade.

Far too sensible for it to ever actually happen.

Except it isn't. It's a very narrow viewpoint, based solely on the private car driver's position.

To break even, it'd need about 12p putting on each litre of fuel. Don't forget there's already 58p per litre and VAT on fuel - so at £1.20, that's 20p VAT plus 58p duty = 78p in tax, leaving just 42p for the oil, the refining, the distribution, the marketing, the retailer's margin.

12p doesn't sound a lot, does it...? But now think of the effect on business transportation of goods. And who ends up paying that? You, through shop prices. And then there's the petrol used for non-road use, in mowers and chainsaws etc. Red diesel's available, but not "red petrol". You'd also get in increase in cross-border fuel smuggling, especially near the channel ports and in NI.

Do I take it you're not a great advocate of 'the polluter pays' principle then?

AdrianC

Mickey666 said:

AdrianC said:

Mickey666 said:

born_again said:

Even better just add it to the fuel tax. The more you use the car, the more you pay.... Can't avoid that.

Hear hear - the obvious solution.  Fair and difficult (impossible?) to evade.

Far too sensible for it to ever actually happen.

Except it isn't. It's a very narrow viewpoint, based solely on the private car driver's position.

To break even, it'd need about 12p putting on each litre of fuel. Don't forget there's already 58p per litre and VAT on fuel - so at £1.20, that's 20p VAT plus 58p duty = 78p in tax, leaving just 42p for the oil, the refining, the distribution, the marketing, the retailer's margin.

12p doesn't sound a lot, does it...? But now think of the effect on business transportation of goods. And who ends up paying that? You, through shop prices. And then there's the petrol used for non-road use, in mowers and chainsaws etc. Red diesel's available, but not "red petrol". You'd also get in increase in cross-border fuel smuggling, especially near the channel ports and in NI.

Do I take it you're not a great advocate of 'the polluter pays' principle then?

The polluter already pays. 78p out of £1.20 per litre of fuel.

Mickey666

Fine, so it's a well-established principle that can be easily extended so we can do away with the bureaucracy and costs associated with RFD, which is supposedly based on emissions itself in some vague way related to the size/cleanliness of the engine but not actually to the only real measure of pollution which it the actual consumption of fuel.  Thus the anomoly of the much-despised 'mum in a 4x4' taking her brood to school in a highly taxed car because it's a 'gas-guzzler', even though she might only drive 5000 miles per year, while Mr Commuter drives £20k miles per year in a lowly taxed car despite using far more fuel than Mrs 4x4.

It's all nonsense driven by the politics of envy and government's love of complicated taxation because it gives a chancellor something to talk about during the budget speech and allows for easier social engineering.

Car_54

AdrianC said:

Mickey666 said:

AdrianC said:

Mickey666 said:

born_again said:

Even better just add it to the fuel tax. The more you use the car, the more you pay.... Can't avoid that.

Hear hear - the obvious solution.  Fair and difficult (impossible?) to evade.

Far too sensible for it to ever actually happen.

Except it isn't. It's a very narrow viewpoint, based solely on the private car driver's position.

To break even, it'd need about 12p putting on each litre of fuel. Don't forget there's already 58p per litre and VAT on fuel - so at £1.20, that's 20p VAT plus 58p duty = 78p in tax, leaving just 42p for the oil, the refining, the distribution, the marketing, the retailer's margin.

12p doesn't sound a lot, does it...? But now think of the effect on business transportation of goods. And who ends up paying that? You, through shop prices. And then there's the petrol used for non-road use, in mowers and chainsaws etc. Red diesel's available, but not "red petrol". You'd also get in increase in cross-border fuel smuggling, especially near the channel ports and in NI.

Do I take it you're not a great advocate of 'the polluter pays' principle then?

The polluter already pays. 78p out of £1.20 per litre of fuel.

But doesn't 'the polluter pays' principle mean that he pays to clean up the pollution? Your 78p simply goes into the general taxation pool, which is not hypothecated. Does the government actually spend every 78p on pollution-reduction measures? (Genuine question!)

Mickey666

Sadly, I'm not aware of any scheme that forces the polluter to actually clean up their pollution (apart from illegal pollution) so the principle seem to be to make it more expensive to pollute, ie the more you pollute the more tax you pay, in the hope, possibly vain, that at least some of that tax money finds it's way into pollution-reducing measures.  An imperfect system, I know.