Probate Hell! Help

Keep_pedalling

xylophone said:

That is not strictly true,

Legally, assuming a standard joint account, it is strictly true. The OP is taking a moral decision.

It is more than that, under these circumstances HMRC would treat the whole account as being part of the estate.

xylophone

HMRC would treat the whole account as being part of the estate.

Yes - as I said in my previous posts.

But this does not change the position with respect to the ownership and control of the account, particularly where the account is held in the name of a parent and offspring.
https://www.gdlaw.co.uk/site/blog/our-services/joint-bank-accounts-the-survivor-takes-it-all#:~:text=The%20general%20starting%20point%20in,to%20the%20surviving%20account%20holder.

Savvy_Sue

Keep_pedalling said:

In the OPs shoes I would simply reply that you did not borrow any money, and that you will be providing your brother with a full set of accounts once the estate has been finalised. Unless you brother is a joint executor he is not entitled to anything else, so I would not provided the requested bank statements at this time.

I agree with this, but might say "I did not owe our mother any money at the time of her death" rather than "I did not borrow any money", because that does risk challenge if money was previously borrowed.

Is brother a joint executor? That would change things. 

I might also add to such a letter that you hope you do not have to take legal advice on this matter, but that if you do the costs will be a legitimate expense on the estate, ie it will reduce HIS inheritance. (I believe that to be a valid response, others may disagree.)

Hornetmad

Thanks everyone for replies. 

I did in fact declare to HMRC the full amount out of principle to honour my mother’s wishes And not to seem underhanded with the taxman. I’m doing this regardless of my dislike of him. 

I am sole executor and the will was produced by a solicitor so not a home DIY will. 

It’s very simple sell up house and split 50/50 The balance remaining after al liabilities have been paid. 

An example of money given to me by my mum last year was £5000 before Xmas to purchase two nice watches and have them personalised with a message she wrote. I did this and one was for myself and one for my brother. This was at xmas as she was unable to do this under her own steam as this point. I also with the remaining money purchased small gifts for her friends as a last Xmas present to them so nice things. After that payment financial abuse was occurring by sibling to minimise the abuse the money was then transferred by my mum. She was always aware of this happening over the last 15 years but loved him and couldn’t stop it happening. 

My brother will see this payment as I was given the money as part of a loan. But obviously it’s to carry out her wishes at the time. 

When speaking to the bank upon my mum transferring the money to my current account and then I moved it only and went to the branch the next day to explain where it had come from and why they were very help and I had the joint account protected by there specialist safeguarding team.

They did at the time say as she did send it to my current account it would still be seen as her money but because it was moved by myself to the joint account it would be looked at differently as it originated into the joint account from my current account. 

Hope that explains a little more. 

As always much appreciated all your thoughts and suggestions 

Hornetmad

Hi Keep peddling,

I assume when you say a full copy of the accounts you are referring to the executors account rather than my mums bank statements of transactions before death? 

Thanks in advance 

Hornetmad

Also the IHT limit was not exceeded with all funds and property accounted for. 

xylophone

This may be of interest with regard to joint accounts governed by Scots Law  - note the difference.
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm15054#:~:text=Under%20Scots%20Law%2C%20where%20Bank,the%20account%20to%20the%20survivor.

dominoman

Why has the original question been edited and deleted.  The whole purpose of a forum is to get help from people who are willing to spend their time to help you.  The questions and answers then remain for others to benefit from in future.

When the original question gets deleted the whole thread makes no sense.