Help with current private renting situation

jimbrowne

Hi everyone, heard this site was pretty good for solid advice and so thought I'd come here to get some advice in regards to my current situation.

I recently just moved into a shared flat and I've been having issues with the tenants living here. One was smoking weed so heavily I could smell it lying in my bed while the door to my room was closed. I don't smoke it but don't mind others doing it provided it's not forced on people. This tenant also had beligerrent visitors over who were also smoking lots of weed and drinking and shouting, perhaps 7 in total and all while the lockdown measures were in place (Start of May). I asked them to leave because I wasn't going to be pushed into the corner in my own place while these people were filling the flat full of cannabis smoke and shouting and raving while other people have to live here. Two of them threatened to 'kick the f**k out of me'. To be a civil and decent tenant I went about things by not complaining to the landlord as I thought my firm but not overly aggressive and anti-social means of confronting this other tenant was enough for things to resolve and it never be talked about again. Just a mature situation where things were resolved amicably. She really did me over with that as she went to the landlord a day afterwards saying she was worried about me because I had told her off and I made sure when she had people round they knew they couldn't come in. So she spat in my face for being decent pretty much. Wasn't expecting that but things died down. She fortunately moved out. Another tenant moved in pretty much straight after who began introducing himself by telling me how he had been in prison several times, had friends who held up security vans with shotguns, had beaten loads of people up and had continuous runnings with the police etc. I found this bizarre as an attempt at an introduction but also concerned as he progressed to entering a tenants room without her permission (she was living with family while the brunt of this coronavirus pandemic was at it's height and so wasn't in) while boasting about how he could steal her laptop that was in her cupboard. This tenant wasn't here to defend herself and I had warned her via WhatsApp what had gone on but it's evident the landlord had downplayed that in his own personal messages to her. He (the new guy) also tried to manipulate and goad me into ripping new tenants off who moved in by getting them to pay more than what was on the bill. All this within a week of moving in! And so naturally I was very concerned about this individual and so I reported it to the landlord. He did nothing. He downplayed it and basically fobbed me off despite explaining in detail what his behaviour was like, what he had said and his character. I warned him this guy seemed like trouble and that at any minute he could explode and hurt people who stood up to him. As the second week went on I began to see this guy is severely narcissistic and unstable and very threatening in how he communicated with me. Everytime I talked he would purposefully talk over me, change the topic, downplay what I said, throw in insults and subliminal hints he really didn't give a damn about me as a tenant or as a person seperate to the tenancy. He would almost bob and weave while talking to me like he was trying to cajole me into submission with his body language, kept talking about guns again and fraud and crime etc. Always mentioning violence and always acting like he was one move away from punching someone. Again I reported the issues. At this point I told this new tenant formally via a WhatsApp message I wanted nothing to do with him due to his behaviour over the last week but put it politely. A few days there was nothing from him, until yesterday.

Yesterday he began trying to talk to me while I discussed with a new tenant who had moved in a plan to pay the bills (as they are not included in the rent) and because I didn't bow before this erratic and shady individual and wouldn't be controlled he exploded and threatened to beat me up bouncing around the flat shouting and acting very erratic and aggressive like a child that couldn't get his own way. He told me has a personality disorder (BPD) as well as extensive experience with psychiatric services as well as the police.  I was calm and didn't respond but also made him aware I wasn't going to cower in a corner and be bullied. I knew at this point this new guy was a lunatic who probably has an extensive record of doing the very same things he is doing now in this shared flat. And now all my worries came true. All the mails to the landlord were true and now I was seeing it in person. I rang the police. They came and took a statement, the incident has been logged etc but the cheek of the landlord in direct response sent me an email saying the police were taking no action and it was hard for him to step in despite several emails over the last week discussing my concerns. Felt like a low blow. Now the police have come and still nothing. He is point blank refusing to take action. His defense was my approach to dealing with this new guy was unacceptable and that telling a volatile stranger I have never met who has professed his criminal activity time and time again and is happy about it to leave me alone was pretty much out of order, from what I can see. I have dealt with harrassment in the past and have experienced abusive manipulative people (havent we all?) and saw I immediately saw the warning signs of a severely abusive person and stopped any communication. On the phone he (landlord) mentioned how various tenants had 'a problem with me' despite the fact the two tenants who have lived here have both broken their tenancy agreements and both were abusive and didn't like my defending my right to enjoy a peaceful tenancy, so my response in dealing with both has been propionate to what I have experienced. I haven't lost the plot. I've done everything diplomatically and formally, usually through WhatsApp or email where it can be stored as evidence. He also said that he 'background checked' the new tenant and he didn't have a criminal record. I find this ridiculous considering he cannot complete a full disclosure check without written permission and without stating prior to moving in this is part of the process. I was never checked. No-one else was checked. He also mentioned a tenant had put a complaint in about me as soon as I began to be firm with him (the landlord) but wouldn't mention the name or the circumstances. I haven't spoken to anyone in here since moving in (just about 2 months) and everyone I have spoken to I'm friendly with and have sat out in the sun with while we are enjoying the start of the summer weather. So it's just mind game after mind game with this landlord it seems.

To make things worse to begin with he built me up the first time I viewed the property and said it was available to only an hour later give it to someone else while promising it me. He then did it another time, this time taking my money and then saying it wasn't available a day later. Thankfully he gave me the money back. He then for a third time conversed with me and it seemed this time a room was really available although I was very suspicious. This was during a time when things were very much locked down and so it was very hard to find a place. I was escaping domestic violence at home and was very desperate to get out ASAP. I told him about my situation and I genuinely think he's played on it? I thought being honest was a good thing mind. I moved in and yeah, had issues ever since! He lied about the internet, the bills, the TV, Xbox etc. Not world shaking things but the act of lying to the face of your tenants just to get them in is not on. He continued to lie to new tenants moving in promising them things that didn't exist while they move in scratching their heads with what is going on. The bills still haven't been sorted in here and he doesn't give a damn about assisting in any way. I had to chase up the bill payer myself and get screenshots of the bills in order to pay my share and I didn't meet this person until just a few days ago when she came back to move out before the new guy moved in. There was pretty much ZERO communication with the bills until recently. I started this dialogue, no-one else. The new guy moved in on the assertion there was internet and it doesn't exist. So did the abusive guy. The abusive guy was told there was a sewerage bill included in the main bills but I was never told about this nor was anyone else.

One tenant has gotten a reduced rental rate while everyone else pays more. I pay 350 after 3 months as does the other new tenant but this abusive guy who moved in pays 335. Plus his agreement has more personalized terms to it than mine. The landlord has gone the extra effort to write the terms down by the printed words themselves on the tenancy agreement. Deposit has been protected, got an email from DPS. I received gas safety checks, inventory, guide to renting etc. That being said the inventory check for the abusive guys room didn't have the furniture that was mentioned in the inventory check. Just irregularities one after another. Little things that add up and you're pretty sure this landlord is dodgy. Plus there is damp everywhere but I'm not sure how serious it is and whether it's serious enough to get someone out to look at it. The bathroom was filthy and the walls in there were slimey to the touch. I spent hours cleaning it. The amount of mold in there was unbelievable.

I'm fuming. Half of me just wants to unleash hell on this two faced swine of a landlord but I know in doing so I leave myself no room to do things properly. Hence why I'm here. I'm not sure what to do. I have been told to record evidence in regards to this abusive person ie interactions etc and this I have no problem doing. I haven't yet lost my marbles but I've been seriously close telling this landlord how I feel after his manipulative downplaying and almost gaslighting-like behaviour towards me! Seems to be all my fault and I'm the one causing all the issues! Or maybe he's just doing this because he doesn't give a damn about his tenants and just wants the money! Makes sense for him to play on everything after I told him I had come from a pretty bad spot and really needed somewhere to live. I'm not a victim though, I can seperate my own personal life from my tenancy but it's shocking to see how this appears to be linked to how honest and decent and open I've been hoping for a decent place to live.

Appreciate any advice, little or large, it's all going to help right now. Cheers!

[Deleted User]

jimbrowne said:

Hi everyone, heard this site was pretty good for solid advice and so thought I'd come here to get some advice in regards to my current situation.

I recently just moved into a shared flat and I've been having issues with the tenants living here. One was smoking weed so heavily I could smell it lying in my bed while the door to my room was closed. I don't smoke it but don't mind others doing it provided it's not forced on people. This tenant also had beligerrent visitors over who were also smoking lots of weed and drinking and shouting, perhaps 7 in total and all while the lockdown measures were in place (Start of May). I asked them to leave because I wasn't going to be pushed into the corner in my own place while these people were filling the flat full of cannabis smoke and shouting and raving while other people have to live here. Two of them threatened to 'kick the f**k out of me'. To be a civil and decent tenant I went about things by not complaining to the landlord as I thought my firm but not overly aggressive and anti-social means of confronting this other tenant was enough for things to resolve and it never be talked about again. Just a mature situation where things were resolved amicably. She really did me over with that as she went to the landlord a day afterwards saying she was worried about me because I had told her off and I made sure when she had people round they knew they couldn't come in. So she spat in my face for being decent pretty much. Wasn't expecting that but things died down. She fortunately moved out. Another tenant moved in pretty much straight after who began introducing himself by telling me how he had been in prison several times, had friends who held up security vans with shotguns, had beaten loads of people up and had continuous runnings with the police etc. I found this bizarre as an attempt at an introduction but also concerned as he progressed to entering a tenants room without her permission (she was living with family while the brunt of this coronavirus pandemic was at it's height and so wasn't in) while boasting about how he could steal her laptop that was in her cupboard. This tenant wasn't here to defend herself and I had warned her via WhatsApp what had gone on but it's evident the landlord had downplayed that in his own personal messages to her. He (the new guy) also tried to manipulate and goad me into ripping new tenants off who moved in by getting them to pay more than what was on the bill. All this within a week of moving in! And so naturally I was very concerned about this individual and so I reported it to the landlord. He did nothing. He downplayed it and basically fobbed me off despite explaining in detail what his behaviour was like, what he had said and his character. I warned him this guy seemed like trouble and that at any minute he could explode and hurt people who stood up to him. As the second week went on I began to see this guy is severely narcissistic and unstable and very threatening in how he communicated with me. Everytime I talked he would purposefully talk over me, change the topic, downplay what I said, throw in insults and subliminal hints he really didn't give a damn about me as a tenant or as a person seperate to the tenancy. He would almost bob and weave while talking to me like he was trying to cajole me into submission with his body language, kept talking about guns again and fraud and crime etc. Always mentioning violence and always acting like he was one move away from punching someone. Again I reported the issues. At this point I told this new tenant formally via a WhatsApp message I wanted nothing to do with him due to his behaviour over the last week but put it politely. A few days there was nothing from him, until yesterday.

Yesterday he began trying to talk to me while I discussed with a new tenant who had moved in a plan to pay the bills (as they are not included in the rent) and because I didn't bow before this erratic and shady individual and wouldn't be controlled he exploded and threatened to beat me up bouncing around the flat shouting and acting very erratic and aggressive like a child that couldn't get his own way. He told me has a personality disorder (BPD) as well as extensive experience with psychiatric services as well as the police.  I was calm and didn't respond but also made him aware I wasn't going to cower in a corner and be bullied. I knew at this point this new guy was a lunatic who probably has an extensive record of doing the very same things he is doing now in this shared flat. And now all my worries came true. All the mails to the landlord were true and now I was seeing it in person. I rang the police. They came and took a statement, the incident has been logged etc but the cheek of the landlord in direct response sent me an email saying the police were taking no action and it was hard for him to step in despite several emails over the last week discussing my concerns. Felt like a low blow. Now the police have come and still nothing. He is point blank refusing to take action. His defense was my approach to dealing with this new guy was unacceptable and that telling a volatile stranger I have never met who has professed his criminal activity time and time again and is happy about it to leave me alone was pretty much out of order, from what I can see. I have dealt with harrassment in the past and have experienced abusive manipulative people (havent we all?) and saw I immediately saw the warning signs of a severely abusive person and stopped any communication. On the phone he (landlord) mentioned how various tenants had 'a problem with me' despite the fact the two tenants who have lived here have both broken their tenancy agreements and both were abusive and didn't like my defending my right to enjoy a peaceful tenancy, so my response in dealing with both has been propionate to what I have experienced. I haven't lost the plot. I've done everything diplomatically and formally, usually through WhatsApp or email where it can be stored as evidence. He also said that he 'background checked' the new tenant and he didn't have a criminal record. I find this ridiculous considering he cannot complete a full disclosure check without written permission and without stating prior to moving in this is part of the process. I was never checked. No-one else was checked. He also mentioned a tenant had put a complaint in about me as soon as I began to be firm with him (the landlord) but wouldn't mention the name or the circumstances. I haven't spoken to anyone in here since moving in (just about 2 months) and everyone I have spoken to I'm friendly with and have sat out in the sun with while we are enjoying the start of the summer weather. So it's just mind game after mind game with this landlord it seems.

To make things worse to begin with he built me up the first time I viewed the property and said it was available to only an hour later give it to someone else while promising it me. He then did it another time, this time taking my money and then saying it wasn't available a day later. Thankfully he gave me the money back. He then for a third time conversed with me and it seemed this time a room was really available although I was very suspicious. This was during a time when things were very much locked down and so it was very hard to find a place. I was escaping domestic violence at home and was very desperate to get out ASAP. I told him about my situation and I genuinely think he's played on it? I thought being honest was a good thing mind. I moved in and yeah, had issues ever since! He lied about the internet, the bills, the TV, Xbox etc. Not world shaking things but the act of lying to the face of your tenants just to get them in is not on. He continued to lie to new tenants moving in promising them things that didn't exist while they move in scratching their heads with what is going on. The bills still haven't been sorted in here and he doesn't give a damn about assisting in any way. I had to chase up the bill payer myself and get screenshots of the bills in order to pay my share and I didn't meet this person until just a few days ago when she came back to move out before the new guy moved in. There was pretty much ZERO communication with the bills until recently. I started this dialogue, no-one else. The new guy moved in on the assertion there was internet and it doesn't exist. So did the abusive guy. The abusive guy was told there was a sewerage bill included in the main bills but I was never told about this nor was anyone else.

One tenant has gotten a reduced rental rate while everyone else pays more. I pay 350 after 3 months as does the other new tenant but this abusive guy who moved in pays 335. Plus his agreement has more personalized terms to it than mine. The landlord has gone the extra effort to write the terms down by the printed words themselves on the tenancy agreement. Deposit has been protected, got an email from DPS. I received gas safety checks, inventory, guide to renting etc. That being said the inventory check for the abusive guys room didn't have the furniture that was mentioned in the inventory check. Just irregularities one after another. Little things that add up and you're pretty sure this landlord is dodgy. Plus there is damp everywhere but I'm not sure how serious it is and whether it's serious enough to get someone out to look at it. The bathroom was filthy and the walls in there were slimey to the touch. I spent hours cleaning it. The amount of mold in there was unbelievable.

I'm fuming. Half of me just wants to unleash hell on this two faced swine of a landlord but I know in doing so I leave myself no room to do things properly. Hence why I'm here. I'm not sure what to do. I have been told to record evidence in regards to this abusive person ie interactions etc and this I have no problem doing. I haven't yet lost my marbles but I've been seriously close telling this landlord how I feel after his manipulative downplaying and almost gaslighting-like behaviour towards me! Seems to be all my fault and I'm the one causing all the issues! Or maybe he's just doing this because he doesn't give a damn about his tenants and just wants the money! Makes sense for him to play on everything after I told him I had come from a pretty bad spot and really needed somewhere to live. I'm not a victim though, I can seperate my own personal life from my tenancy but it's shocking to see how this appears to be linked to how honest and decent and open I've been hoping for a decent place to live.

Appreciate any advice, little or large, it's all going to help right now. Cheers!

In summary you had an issue with a tenant (weed smoking and breaking social distancing rules) she's move out and has been replaced by someone who is possibly worse.  The landlord doesn't care.  There are issues surrounding the bills and no one seems to know what's going on.

It sounds as if you each have your own individual tenancies can you confirm that is correct?  How many people live in the property, sounds as if there are at least 3 of you.  Does this property require a HMO licence (check on the council's website) and if so is there a licence?  Can you please confirm where in the UK this property is located?

Emmia

Honestly I'd find somewhere else to live.

The landlord is running this as a business. He/She is only interested in getting their rent, and is not really interested in maintaining the property properly (hence the damp problem), he/she also does not give a fig about who they rent to or the relationships between tenants, as long as they get their money...

The people you live with, are (possibly as a result of the landlord's actions / interest in money) varying degrees of dodgy / violent - and you seem to like to provoke them.  

Not worth it IMO. 

ChloeManoey

100% leave 

AdrianC

That's one hell of a wall of text to say "I need to move".

greatcrested

* which country?

* what tenancy - joint and several or sole tenancy in your name?

* tenancy dates?

* exact term in tenancy regarding bills/utilities?

* how many tenants/occupants?

* HMO? Licenced? If not, does it meet the relevant council's requirement to be licenced? (check council website)

* Police crime number obtained? For the asault? The weed?

jimbrowne

Lover_of_Lycra said:

In summary you had an issue with a tenant (weed smoking and breaking social distancing rules) she's move out and has been replaced by someone who is possibly worse.  The landlord doesn't care.  There are issues surrounding the bills and no one seems to know what's going on.

It sounds as if you each have your own individual tenancies can you confirm that is correct?  How many people live in the property, sounds as if there are at least 3 of you.  Does this property require a HMO licence (check on the council's website) and if so is there a licence?  Can you please confirm where in the UK this property is located?

Drugs, antisocial behaviour, threats of violence, non-payment of bills, false allegations put in against me, credible threat to my person by this other guy who moved in who unlike the other tenants friends (who kicked off like kids when I said they had to go home after flooding the flat with weed smoke and the smell of vodka) really wants to fight and injure me and says he can do so at any time, referencing to gangs and knives and guns and stuff all the time - feel like I'm in a seedy amateur grime video, more drug use, damp in the property, false advertising of various things like TV, Xbox, internet, preferential treatment based on each individual tenant, continuous lies from the landlord and negation of responsibility...

Everything I said is quite different to your take on it but some of your points are correct, yes.
3 people live in the property. And if I'm right in saying mandatory HMO licenses are for those with 5 or more people living in them from 2 or more households. I'm not in on the law behind it (but probably should be). I don't think there is a license for this flat and the council doesn't do additional licensing, only selective licensing and this is substantially different so I have read ie has to be high levels of crime, antisocial behaviour, mismanagement of the property, low demand etc. Unless this continues and unless there has been history here I can't see the council requiring a selective license. Some other flats in the building have 5 or more people living in them though and being students they are technically seperate households.

It's in Manchester. Seems like a mecca for rogue landlords and depressing shared living here!

Emmia said:

Honestly I'd find somewhere else to live.

The landlord is running this as a business. He/She is only interested in getting their rent, and is not really interested in maintaining the property properly (hence the damp problem), he/she also does not give a fig about who they rent to or the relationships between tenants, as long as they get their money...

The people you live with, are (possibly as a result of the landlord's actions / interest in money) varying degrees of dodgy / violent - and you seem to like to provoke them.  

Not worth it IMO. 

Yeah, it's a good idea but with coronavirus doing the rounds work isn't like it used to be and things probably won't open up properly like they once were for a long time. They've painted "2m apart at all times" on the walkways here in Manchester for something we all anticipate to be a temporary virus, so theres evidently more to come and the council are expecting this to last a while by their desire to start painting the streets with precautionary signage and road/path guidance. So I'm unlikely to find solid work.

I agree, it's a business. And it's a huge problem. Still doesn't make it right when these problems exist. This guy is a bully basically and I was either to bow to him and feel like a piece of sh*t in my own home and made to feel inferior, or I was to try and sort this with the landlord. I don't think defending yourself from bullies and/or antisocial people that make life hell for others is provocation. It's what is necessary to put people like this in line. It's pretty much standard policy in any society that holds people accountable for their actions, and brings justice for all. Like I said I could see it ending very badly and me getting sucked into some sort of toxic destructive relationship with this lunatic where the more I talked to him the harder it would have been to shut him out. I envisioned not being able to leave my room without him believing we were best buddies and I wanted to live in his grandiose delusional world. So I felt it necessary to stand up and shut it out. Naturally he hasn't taking nicely to it but then again, being someone whose likely climbed from under a rock somewhere and can't integrate into society, it doesn't surprise me. I agree, not worth it completely.

AdrianC said:

That's one hell of a wall of text to say "I need to move".

It wasn't a statement, it was a request for advice. This isn't advice. You're mistaking an advice forum for your Facebook feed I think. But you're right, I do need to move. It's pretty crap and I'm not sure if you've experienced shared living before but it's one of those things forced on many people who cannot afford to live in areas where getting their own place is massively expensive. Here in Manchester the going rate for a 1 bed flat is £600-700 a month, and that's CHEAP, in some cases suspiciously cheap. The only affordable option in many cases is social housing but good luck finding a decent place nowadays with social housing. More and more people depend on it and at the same time it brings more and more of the bad stuff with it. I lived in social housing at one point in a massive building in my own flat. Police in and out everyday, heroin addicts that could barely talk to you when you saw them on the corridor, drunks outside to the early hours, random people sleeping in your bin room, drugs being sold on all floors. And this wasn't even a rough area.
I need to move, but I won't be renting an apartment in the Hilton anytime soon either and so the reality of the situation and you reply are really different things. However, thanks for your... response, I guess.

greatcrested said:

* which country?

* what tenancy - joint and several or sole tenancy in your name?

* tenancy dates?

* exact term in tenancy regarding bills/utilities?

* how many tenants/occupants?

* HMO? Licenced? If not, does it meet the relevant council's requirement to be licenced? (check council website)

* Police crime number obtained? For the asault? The weed?

UK

Assured Shorthold

6 month, started in May

Tenants pay the bills but... a lot of what was said in the ad is bs basically, the landlord lied about pretty much all of it

3 tenants

Technically it's an HMO because 3 people live in it who are seperate to one another but I've read it's not mandatory under these conditions unless certain conditions are met

Yeah, got the crime number. Everything was recorded. I didn't report the weed smoking at the time. I wasn't too bothered until it came into my room and I was forced pretty much to inhale it against my will. The fact the tenant before she moved out carried on doing it and didn't give a damn about other people living there is what really got me annoyed. I don't mind if someone takes drugs so long as it's away from others. You could argue weed isn't as bad as other drugs and I kinda support this but I won't be forced to consume drugs due to someone elses decisions to take them. Split in two if I'm honest regarding reporting it to the police. The main issue is the violence. If weed is continued to be smoked in the property and it's not purposefully smoked outside of a window or as discretely as possible I will report it, no doubt, to the police.

Thank you for all your replies. Has anyone dealt with similiar issues?

Slithery

greatcrested said:

* what tenancy - joint and several or sole tenancy in your name?

Please answer.

jimbrowne

Slithery said:

greatcrested said:

* what tenancy - joint and several or sole tenancy in your name?

Please answer.

I mentioned in my post it was an assured shorthold tenancy. Further, I'm the only one on the tenancy

greatcrested

Please answer the questions asked.

greatcrested said:

* which country?

* what tenancy - joint and several or sole tenancy in your name?

* tenancy dates?

* exact term in tenancy regarding bills/utilities?

* how many tenants/occupants?

* HMO? Licenced? If not, does it meet the relevant council's requirement to be licenced? (check council website)

* Police crime number obtained? For the asault? The weed?

UK

Assured Shorthold

6 month, started in May

Tenants pay the bills but... a lot of what was said in the ad is bs basically, the landlord lied about pretty much all of it

3 tenants  Wow! A precise answer!

Technically it's an HMO because 3 people live in it who are seperate to one another but I've read it's not mandatory under these conditions unless certain conditions are met

Yeah, got the crime number. Good. What action are the police taking?

[Deleted User]

@jimbrowne I was merely summarising your wall of text.  If you want help then answer the questions asked succinctly rather than typing out another diatribe.