Personal Independence Payment Professionals

Alice_Holt

Cyclamen -  

       Some ideas on how to approach that daunting 300 + pages (and I do understand its easy for me to say this).

1) Don't take the assessment comments personally - the assessors use cut and paste phrases that re-occur over many assessments. Stock phrases may include -  low level medication, engaged well / maintained eye contact (yes I've seen this on a telephone assessment report !), not under the mental health care team, etc, etc. Don't dwell on these - there are generic not specific, and more than often misapply the correct PIP legal tests. 

2) Ignore any legalise and references to legislation the DWP may insert into the papers. The tribunal know the law (and legal precedent).  

3)  For your own use - Write a one page list which summarises what's included in the bundle i.e
        DWP summary - Pages A to M
        MR form - Pages 10 to 15
        Latest disputed assessment - Pages  xx to xxx
        My latest PIP form -  Pages xx to xxx   
        Useful Dr's letter / evidence etc - Pages, x , xx , xxx
        Previous PIP award - assessment and PIP form - Pages xxx-xxx
     This will help you navigate that bundle, (tie the bundle together in page order)

4)  Concentrate on the PIP descriptors (have them nearby), identify which apply to you and ensure you get to the necessary 8 points. In your statement for the tribunal explain how and why these applied (bearing in mind the importance of reliability) at the time of the assessment.
Quote any relevant page numbers i.e " In my PIP form at page 39 I stated ' I.....'"     
 
5) If the 300 pages contain previous PIP assessments, look for the pattern.i.e.
     If you were awarded PIP points previously,
      - explained in your latest PIP form that you continued to have these difficulties, but
     -  these points were removed at the disputed assessment on the basis of a nonsense stock phrase (see above) - then
  a) point this on your statement; say the latest assessment is inconsistent; give more examples of how and why you still struggle with the PIP descriptor: include a statement from a family member / carer / medical professional to confirm that your conditions / abilities have not improved   

6) Use that 'How to win a PIP appeal' guide (particularly sections 15 & 16), and remember that c.75% PIP appeals succeed at tribunal.

Cyclamen

Alice thak you 

Honestly my husband is in 'overload' about this and my cognition is just getting worse along with mental health and horrific dreams... I have never ever had an issue getting the appropriate benefit  fr myself and suporting others (ESA/DLA/PIP/AA /fought for social care) but just having the papers in the house is upsetting both of us. 

I know we shouldnt be paying someone to support us.. i feel bad about that.. but feel cornered.   

I chose fightback as the MS society contracts to them, non profit group, actually have a track record of being good at this and were more affordable.. they offered a sliding scale but we have cut back so we can afford it so that those who really need a discount get it. 

We just send stuff to them an dthey are going to make sense of it, sort a report and join husband on the appeal (hopefully video due to travelling) .  

In reply to your points

1) Useful to know stock phrases used and copy and paste..i suspected tis but wasnt sure.  Yes its hard reading. You mention the 'eye contact' when on phone.. they typed didnt need prompting or  explanation and answered phone promptly.. he had been sat on bed for about 40 mins before appointment time holding phone, prompt sheets on bed which he told assesor about and asked him to wait whilst he found right one for diagnosis /meds etc.. and the most unbelieveable was 'client smiling and jovial'  this is a man who whilst very happy smiles so rarely that family and friends comment when a smile appears as so unusual.. Twice he got flustered and handed phone to me having asked assessors help, and also got permision to be on speaker phone introducing me so i could point to things... the assesor'heard client walking about'  - i excused myself and went to loo husband didn move. 
I cmmented and corrected all this in our MR submission.. turns out they didnt read it.

3) thanks.. that seems a better idea.. might get help to whole punch and tie with string..i drop a lot of things. 

4) the advice now template took us through for MR so i think we ave explained and referenced dr's notes where we see criteria match.    I dont know how to do this any differently as it took me a long time and even longer to recover.  If they accept just under half the points he will be on enhanced.

5) Sadly he wouldnt agree to asking for MR/Appeal last time... just accepted tandard daily living as foud it all too stressful so 'shut down'  its taken years for my husband to agree too apply and he just wouldnt go for MR lat time or even include everything.. back then he wasnt comfy mentioning all the symptoms, challenges he deals with.  I did write a covering letter explaining this. 

----------------

They keep going back to 'it cant be causing challenges as there is no input from specialists'.. but specialists discharge when they can't help, mental health team have tried and discharged.. there was a letter.    He doesn't have carers but I have carers and as a side effect he gets support eg houswork, food prep, support going out as they help me go on dates.  SS wouldnt allocate food and housework if they felt he could do it.    But evidence is hard to find. He doesn't have family his side.. I am going to ask my folks to write something.. my care team all offered.  There is no one else

So messy and i am so worn down by all of it .. managing te impact on both of us is making us both want to quit and bury our heads in the sand. 

Alice_Holt

 "no input from specialists"

    That's another meaningless cut and paste phrase that is frequently used on these reports (often when they can't use the 'low level medication' one).

 As you rightly say -
".. but specialists discharge when they can't help, mental health team have tried and discharged...  "

And the GP on the tribunal panel will be well aware of this. 
I'm not sure what weight the panel gives these stock DWP phrases / excuses - my suspicion is very little.

Your point above is important, so needs to be on the statement / evidence that goes to the tribunal panel (preferably with a reference to the page no. of the relevant letter in the bundle).

It is also worth telling them about the circumstances of the telephone interview (as you wrote in your post @ 1). So, do make sure your MR additional info is sent in again.
If your husband was distressed / exhausted / unable to function / etc after the call - then add that into your statement.  (This is back to the very important reliability aspect of PIP).


From the PIP assessment guide - 

"Central to the application of all the activities within the PIP assessment is a consideration of the manner in which they are undertaken. For a descriptor to be able to apply to a claimant, the claimant must be able to reliably complete the descriptor.

Considering reliability involves looking at whether the claimant can complete the descriptor as described:
• Safely – in a manner unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person, either during or after completion of the activity
• To an acceptable standard
• Repeatedly – able to repeat the descriptor as often as is reasonably required
• In a reasonable time period – no more than twice as long as the maximum period that a non-disabled person would normally take to complete that activity.

 This applies to every activity within the assessment. If an individual cannot reliably complete a descriptor then they should be considered unable to complete it at that level..."

Cyclamen

Thank you - the no input from specialists was worryingme but of course a GP will know they discharge and put you back under GP care.  

Yes we tried reliably, repeatedly, safely and timely... that was ignored.  Plenty of distress from phone call.  

I think it wold be far better if some of the people on this thread and in the disabled community actually did the PIP assesments to get fair awards. 

My husband had Autistic Shutdown yesterday from all the 'words and paper' and is now tring to ignore it all.  I am fretting i should be doing more but cant.. phoned the team and they are due to read through next week and then phone us ..so i am going to step back and look after us both for a bit .. life has to be about more than benefits and medical paperwork 

Its really helped talking here.. i am sorry for hijacking someone elses thread.. didnt expect it to turn out as me needing to type so much.. i still feel guilty paing others t sort it all out but cant find any other way ...   

Spoonie_Turtle

Cyclamen said:

 Its really helped talking here.. i am sorry for hijacking someone elses thread.. didnt expect it to turn out as me needing to type so much.. i still feel guilty paing others t sort it all out but cant find any other way ...   

You do what you have to in order to survive - physically and mentally.  Don't feel guilty!  You're doing your best, you can't do any more than that.  And like all people, but we disabled people seem to encounter more often, sometimes 'our best' is asking for and accepting help.  It's better than being too proud for help and either burning yourselves out completely, or just giving up.  This way you'll get the ongoing financial support you need.

Alice_Holt

Cyclam
... they are due to read through next week and then phone us ..so i am going to step back and look after us both for a bit .. life has to be about more than benefits and medical paperwork 

... i still feel guilty paing others t sort it all out but cant find any other way ...   

        As spoonie says - absolutely no need to feel guilty.  Much, much better to persevere and get the right result than not.

  I imagine fightback will talk to you and you husband about relevant PIP activities / descriptors and you can then jointly decide on which additional points / descriptors the statement to the tribunal should focus on.

  It's likely they will send you a draft statement to approve before sending it to HMCTS. 
  Do make sure that you are both happy with this, that it doesn't contain any misunderstandings / half truths, etc   
  It's really useful to have some notes with extra examples around these additional points / descriptors, that you and your husband can then use as an aide memoire at the hearing to give the panel as full a picture as possible. 
(Note that the panel will be considering you husband's condition /abilities at the date of the DWP decision. 
Also remember that the panel's job is to decide if the DWP decision is right or wrong - so to do this they need to ask your husband questions around the PIP activities and his daily life in order to get as full a picture as possible.)

  If you feel your husband may struggle to explain things at the tribunal hearing, then it's often a good idea to add a sentence to this effect on the statement. Request that because of his autism / etc the panel let you help / prompt your husband to explain fully, and also to be able to give examples yourself.
  This will prepare the panel in advance, but it's still a very good idea to ask the chair's permission before expanding on any answers your husband has given (i.e Can I just add to that....etc). I'm sure the panel will welcome an opportunity to get a fuller picture. 

A panel will usually place much greater weight on the verbal evidence at the hearing, than that flawed DWP assessment / bundle.  

Cyclamen

Thank you both .

Absolutely honesty.. i dont agree with not being honest and all that describe everything as worst day every day doesnt feel right.. we both state frequencies etc.

On the phone we asked permision at the start to be on speaker and i always asked if i could say something or explain/prompt..again seemed polite.

Appeal unless its online i cant physically attend unless one of my carers can take me but i am not well enough to get to the courts and sit up... my husband is comfortable with a fightback person going with him and we are saving up incase it comes to that as we woud have to pay travel but hoping for online and they've asked for that.  

I just want to hide from it all.. put everything in a box today and in a cupboard until fightback call as it is having such an impact on him... he just isnt himself , is 'ticking more' and in far more pain from stress than is usuall along with disturbed sleep.. i am just crying in the shower and wanting it over... i have messaged fightback to say he's having a hard time too and will be part of conversations with them as i have already been. 

Thank you 

Alice_Holt

Cyclamen said:

....Appeal unless its online i cant physically attend unless one of my carers can take me but i am not well enough to get to the courts and sit up... my husband is comfortable with a fightback person going with him and we are saving up incase it comes to that as we woud have to pay travel but hoping for online and they've asked for that.  

       
      That can be explained on the SSCS1 form,  tribunal hearings can be telephone or on-line.  Not to allow you to attend the hearing may be viewed as a breach of nature justice (particularly if your husband needs your help to explain to the panel).  

    Again make sure, if this wasn't stated on the SSCS1 form, that fightback write to HMCTS with this reasonable request for an online / telephone hearing and explain why.