Hospital Will

Flugelhorn

Dr_Crypto said:

Most doctors make capacity assessments on a regular basis*. Same for other professionals who have to decide if the person can consent to treatment. 

You get training on the MCA through work. 

*when I was doing front line hero shifts (TM) it was at least once a shift. 

if you think that that the usual MCA  training is enough in a complex legal case, then you need to think again. You may do capacity for treatment assessments on a daily basis, I truly hope that it was more often than that, it certainly was in General Practice (the real front line heroes  ) .  

jasdog

Flugelhorn said:

Dr_Crypto said:

Most doctors make capacity assessments on a regular basis*. Same for other professionals who have to decide if the person can consent to treatment. 

You get training on the MCA through work. 

*when I was doing front line hero shifts (TM) it was at least once a shift. 

if you think that that the usual MCA  training is enough in a complex legal case, then you need to think again. You may do capacity for treatment assessments on a daily basis, I truly hope that it was more often than that, it certainly was in General Practice (the real front line heroes  ) .  

My uncles mental capacity is not in Doubt the contesting solicitors claim lack of Knowledge and Approval and suspicious circumstances nothing more. A heavy burden for me to discharge so they say.

HampshireH

jasdog said:

HampshireH said:

Pollycat said:

jasdog said:

Update to Hospital Will post 20/06/20 . I responded to L v N request through my solicitor Sept 2020 the solicitors challenging the will on behalf of 7 charities did respond Jan 2021 claiming Lack of Knowledge and  Approval also suspicious circumstances . My response to the L v N request was done over the phone answering the questions on spot so was not ideal. I have since provided my uncles medical records and written statements from wife and i explaining my life long relationship with my uncle . The charities solicitors produced a typed attendance note from my uncles solicitor who attended my uncle in hospital with the brief to change or produce a new Will to make me executer and residue beneficiary. The solicitor claimed he was there 30 minutes but was only there a maximum of 10 minutes, he also said my uncle spoke clearly to him and went into great detail regarding his wishes which our solicitor said would have been impossible in 30 minutes let alone the 10 he was actually there. He also said there were 5 charities when there were 7 .My uncle was in the last stages of throat cancer his medical records clearly state he his very difficult to understand you must listen very carfully can write down his wishes and mouth words . The visiting solicitor makes no mention of my uncles condition or ability to communicate . My solicitor suggests the attendance notes were typed up long after the solicitors visit and for purpose of challenging the Will a request for his hand written signed notes has been made . My uncle signed my notes prior to draughting a new Will .     At a ongoing cost £2000 so far i have been to a 2 hour face to face meeting with our solicitor who advised a meeting with a Barrister depending on the response from the charities solicitors £1650 per hour for a face to face meeting . We sent our response to them 8 July not had anything back yet , any thoughts on which way this is going .

Re the bit in bold:
If that is the case why didn't the solicitor draft the new will?

This is totally different to what you said in your first post:

jasdog said:

Hi i have read your advice on will disputes on the forum . Can i ask your advice on my situation i am executor and main beneficiarie to my late uncles will . Whilst in hospital my uncle wanted to change his will . We asked the solicitor who drafted his old will if he could come to the hospital and discuss my uncles request. The solicitor visited my uncle and had a meeting which was private between them both. The solicitor could not seem to understand my uncle who had throat cancer . The meeting resulted in my uncles wishes not been acted on . So to move things on my uncle agreed to me getting a new diy Will to include his new wishes . He signed a letter informing his solictor he no longer required his services . The new drafted will was signed and witnesed by two medical staff who were not involved in his care . He had full capacity and knowledge of what he was doing . The change to the will was to remove several charities who were to recieve the residue of the estate after bequests were paid to me my brother and 2 cousins who still remain on the new will. His new will was granted probate in February . I have now recieved a Larke v Nugus letter from a firm of solicitors who say they are representing the charities that were named on the old will. The letter also mentions my contact with the solicitor who drafted the old will and the fact that my uncle was in hospital at the time when the new will was drafted . My uncles new will were his last wishes made because that was what he wanted . My uncle was still driving his car a week before he went into hospital and had full capacity up to the day he passed away about 3 weeks after he made his new will. My question to you his how should i respond to the Larke v Nugus letter. The will is close to been dispersed to the named beneficaires i have read that 21 days to respond to the letter is acceptable. Thank you if you take time to read this and reply with your thoughts.

I got the impression that was the point the OP is making. Implying that the solicitor has falsified their notes at a later date to favour the charity's agenda.

OP if this is indeed the case, when you complained to the solicitord firm what was the outcome of their investigation?

Thank you for your interest re solicitor attendance notes my solicitor raised concern about the typed note she received from them because of the detail 1 claimed he was there 30 mins when it was only 10mins. 2 lack of supporting written notes . 3 My uncles  medical records clearly state he his very difficult to understand you must listen very carfully can write down his wishes and mouth words . Yet the attendance note says my uncle spoke clearly and went in to lengthy detail regarding his wishes the notes say nothing of my uncles condition or lack of communication.4 The note refers to 5 charities when there were 7. My solicitor suggested these notes could have been typed up long after the solicitors visit 26/09/19 the note was sent to our solicitor 03/21 . This point as been raised with charities solicitors who have yet to respond.

So have you logged a complaint against the solicitor. Sorry if I missed that bit

jasdog

HampshireH said:

jasdog said:

HampshireH said:

Pollycat said:

jasdog said:

Update to Hospital Will post 20/06/20 . I responded to L v N request through my solicitor Sept 2020 the solicitors challenging the will on behalf of 7 charities did respond Jan 2021 claiming Lack of Knowledge and  Approval also suspicious circumstances . My response to the L v N request was done over the phone answering the questions on spot so was not ideal. I have since provided my uncles medical records and written statements from wife and i explaining my life long relationship with my uncle . The charities solicitors produced a typed attendance note from my uncles solicitor who attended my uncle in hospital with the brief to change or produce a new Will to make me executer and residue beneficiary. The solicitor claimed he was there 30 minutes but was only there a maximum of 10 minutes, he also said my uncle spoke clearly to him and went into great detail regarding his wishes which our solicitor said would have been impossible in 30 minutes let alone the 10 he was actually there. He also said there were 5 charities when there were 7 .My uncle was in the last stages of throat cancer his medical records clearly state he his very difficult to understand you must listen very carfully can write down his wishes and mouth words . The visiting solicitor makes no mention of my uncles condition or ability to communicate . My solicitor suggests the attendance notes were typed up long after the solicitors visit and for purpose of challenging the Will a request for his hand written signed notes has been made . My uncle signed my notes prior to draughting a new Will .     At a ongoing cost £2000 so far i have been to a 2 hour face to face meeting with our solicitor who advised a meeting with a Barrister depending on the response from the charities solicitors £1650 per hour for a face to face meeting . We sent our response to them 8 July not had anything back yet , any thoughts on which way this is going .

Re the bit in bold:
If that is the case why didn't the solicitor draft the new will?

This is totally different to what you said in your first post:

jasdog said:

Hi i have read your advice on will disputes on the forum . Can i ask your advice on my situation i am executor and main beneficiarie to my late uncles will . Whilst in hospital my uncle wanted to change his will . We asked the solicitor who drafted his old will if he could come to the hospital and discuss my uncles request. The solicitor visited my uncle and had a meeting which was private between them both. The solicitor could not seem to understand my uncle who had throat cancer . The meeting resulted in my uncles wishes not been acted on . So to move things on my uncle agreed to me getting a new diy Will to include his new wishes . He signed a letter informing his solictor he no longer required his services . The new drafted will was signed and witnesed by two medical staff who were not involved in his care . He had full capacity and knowledge of what he was doing . The change to the will was to remove several charities who were to recieve the residue of the estate after bequests were paid to me my brother and 2 cousins who still remain on the new will. His new will was granted probate in February . I have now recieved a Larke v Nugus letter from a firm of solicitors who say they are representing the charities that were named on the old will. The letter also mentions my contact with the solicitor who drafted the old will and the fact that my uncle was in hospital at the time when the new will was drafted . My uncles new will were his last wishes made because that was what he wanted . My uncle was still driving his car a week before he went into hospital and had full capacity up to the day he passed away about 3 weeks after he made his new will. My question to you his how should i respond to the Larke v Nugus letter. The will is close to been dispersed to the named beneficaires i have read that 21 days to respond to the letter is acceptable. Thank you if you take time to read this and reply with your thoughts.

I got the impression that was the point the OP is making. Implying that the solicitor has falsified their notes at a later date to favour the charity's agenda.

OP if this is indeed the case, when you complained to the solicitord firm what was the outcome of their investigation?

Thank you for your interest re solicitor attendance notes my solicitor raised concern about the typed note she received from them because of the detail 1 claimed he was there 30 mins when it was only 10mins. 2 lack of supporting written notes . 3 My uncles  medical records clearly state he his very difficult to understand you must listen very carfully can write down his wishes and mouth words . Yet the attendance note says my uncle spoke clearly and went in to lengthy detail regarding his wishes the notes say nothing of my uncles condition or lack of communication.4 The note refers to 5 charities when there were 7. My solicitor suggested these notes could have been typed up long after the solicitors visit 26/09/19 the note was sent to our solicitor 03/21 . This point as been raised with charities solicitors who have yet to respond.

So have you logged a complaint against the solicitor. Sorry if I missed that bit

Thank you for interest no official complaint as been made . But my solicitor as made it very clear to the charities solicitors that his conduct will be used against him if it ever goes to court . My uncle was very unhappy with him and said get rid of him and a letter to say he no longer required his legal services was delivered to his offices. The same solicitor also informed the charities solicitors that they had been removed from the old Will 3 months after his new Will had been granted probate and was in the process of been dispersed to the various beneficiaries.

elsien

Dr_Crypto said:

Most doctors make capacity assessments on a regular basis*. Same for other professionals who have to decide if the person can consent to treatment. 

You get training on the MCA through work. 

*when I was doing front line hero shifts (TM) it was at least once a shift. 

They do indeed. And some of them are truly shocking in their limitations. Training in the MCA is very variable indeed. 

Dr_Crypto

Flugelhorn said:

Dr_Crypto said:

Most doctors make capacity assessments on a regular basis*. Same for other professionals who have to decide if the person can consent to treatment. 

You get training on the MCA through work. 

*when I was doing front line hero shifts (TM) it was at least once a shift. 

if you think that that the usual MCA  training is enough in a complex legal case, then you need to think again. You may do capacity for treatment assessments on a daily basis, I truly hope that it was more often than that, it certainly was in General Practice (the real front line heroes  ) .  

How often do you think a high street solicitor has been asked to asses a person’s mental capacity? I’d say that very few have done it in a structured way for a person with serious communication difficulties as in this case? 

What is so complex about a simple will? 

(How can GP’s assess it when they’re not working and are just sat on zoom!)

jasdog

Update after nearly 2 years i have finally settled with the solicitors who bought a challenge to my late uncle Will . My solicitor always said if it ever went to court it be 50 50 which way it would be judged . If the judgment went against me i would stand to loose huge amount in costs that i simply could not cover. The nurses who witnessed the Will would not offer any opinion of what they saw. The challenging solicitors used Knoweldge and Approval has their main challenge to the Will saying my uncle could not of had full Knowledge and Approval of his new Will . Because of the lack of any third party evidence in my favour the challenging solicitors had a very strong case should it ever have been taken to court . We agreed a settlement with them to drop their case which was heavily in their favour . For anyone considering a DIY Will think long and hard if the estate is substantial. The end to 2 years of stress feels better than any amount of money time to get on with the rest of my life.

Froglet

Glad for your sake it's all been sorted out.2 years is far too long to.go through constant stress and worry when a will is supposed to make it easy!

Rich_richardson

jasdog said:

For anyone considering a DIY Will think long and hard if the estate is substantial. The end to 2 years of stress feels better than any amount of money time to get on with the rest of my life.

Thank you for the update and conclusion.

Some wise words learned through bitter experience.