Hospital Will

jasdog

HampshireH said:

Pollycat said:

jasdog said:

Update to Hospital Will post 20/06/20 . I responded to L v N request through my solicitor Sept 2020 the solicitors challenging the will on behalf of 7 charities did respond Jan 2021 claiming Lack of Knowledge and  Approval also suspicious circumstances . My response to the L v N request was done over the phone answering the questions on spot so was not ideal. I have since provided my uncles medical records and written statements from wife and i explaining my life long relationship with my uncle . The charities solicitors produced a typed attendance note from my uncles solicitor who attended my uncle in hospital with the brief to change or produce a new Will to make me executer and residue beneficiary. The solicitor claimed he was there 30 minutes but was only there a maximum of 10 minutes, he also said my uncle spoke clearly to him and went into great detail regarding his wishes which our solicitor said would have been impossible in 30 minutes let alone the 10 he was actually there. He also said there were 5 charities when there were 7 .My uncle was in the last stages of throat cancer his medical records clearly state he his very difficult to understand you must listen very carfully can write down his wishes and mouth words . The visiting solicitor makes no mention of my uncles condition or ability to communicate . My solicitor suggests the attendance notes were typed up long after the solicitors visit and for purpose of challenging the Will a request for his hand written signed notes has been made . My uncle signed my notes prior to draughting a new Will .     At a ongoing cost £2000 so far i have been to a 2 hour face to face meeting with our solicitor who advised a meeting with a Barrister depending on the response from the charities solicitors £1650 per hour for a face to face meeting . We sent our response to them 8 July not had anything back yet , any thoughts on which way this is going .

Re the bit in bold:
If that is the case why didn't the solicitor draft the new will?

This is totally different to what you said in your first post:

jasdog said:

Hi i have read your advice on will disputes on the forum . Can i ask your advice on my situation i am executor and main beneficiarie to my late uncles will . Whilst in hospital my uncle wanted to change his will . We asked the solicitor who drafted his old will if he could come to the hospital and discuss my uncles request. The solicitor visited my uncle and had a meeting which was private between them both. The solicitor could not seem to understand my uncle who had throat cancer . The meeting resulted in my uncles wishes not been acted on . So to move things on my uncle agreed to me getting a new diy Will to include his new wishes . He signed a letter informing his solictor he no longer required his services . The new drafted will was signed and witnesed by two medical staff who were not involved in his care . He had full capacity and knowledge of what he was doing . The change to the will was to remove several charities who were to recieve the residue of the estate after bequests were paid to me my brother and 2 cousins who still remain on the new will. His new will was granted probate in February . I have now recieved a Larke v Nugus letter from a firm of solicitors who say they are representing the charities that were named on the old will. The letter also mentions my contact with the solicitor who drafted the old will and the fact that my uncle was in hospital at the time when the new will was drafted . My uncles new will were his last wishes made because that was what he wanted . My uncle was still driving his car a week before he went into hospital and had full capacity up to the day he passed away about 3 weeks after he made his new will. My question to you his how should i respond to the Larke v Nugus letter. The will is close to been dispersed to the named beneficaires i have read that 21 days to respond to the letter is acceptable. Thank you if you take time to read this and reply with your thoughts.

I got the impression that was the point the OP is making. Implying that the solicitor has falsified their notes at a later date to favour the charity's agenda.

OP if this is indeed the case, when you complained to the solicitord firm what was the outcome of their investigation?

Thank you for your interest re solicitor attendance notes my solicitor raised concern about the typed note she received from them because of the detail 1 claimed he was there 30 mins when it was only 10mins. 2 lack of supporting written notes . 3 My uncles  medical records clearly state he his very difficult to understand you must listen very carfully can write down his wishes and mouth words . Yet the attendance note says my uncle spoke clearly and went in to lengthy detail regarding his wishes the notes say nothing of my uncles condition or lack of communication.4 The note refers to 5 charities when there were 7. My solicitor suggested these notes could have been typed up long after the solicitors visit 26/09/19 the note was sent to our solicitor 03/21 . This point as been raised with charities solicitors who have yet to respond.

p00hsticks

Pollycat said:

Re the bit in bold:
If that is the case why didn't the solicitor draft the new will?

The OP isn't very clear and I've not re-read the whole thread but the first post refers to both a new will and an old will. My understanding is that the solicitor did indeed draft the old will (it's not clear if it was then signed and witnessed and therefore valid ?), but the uncle decided he wasn't happy with the content at some later date (again, not clear how much time elapsed before he came to the decision) and so got relatives to draft a DIY wil to supercede it and got it witnressed.

Pollycat

p00hsticks said:

Pollycat said:

Re the bit in bold:
If that is the case why didn't the solicitor draft the new will?

The OP isn't very clear and I've not re-read the whole thread but the first post refers to both a new will and an old will. My understanding is that the solicitor did indeed draft the old will (it's not clear if it was then signed and witnessed and therefore valid ?), but the uncle decided he wasn't happy with the content at some later date (again, not clear how much time elapsed before he came to the decision) and so got relatives to draft a DIY wil to supercede it and got it witnressed.

My point was that the OP says 

The solicitor could not seem to understand my uncle who had throat cancer . The meeting resulted in my uncles wishes not been acted on

I take that to mean the solicitor didn't draw up a new valid will.

But now the same solicitor is saying 

Yet the attendance note says my uncle spoke clearly and went in to lengthy detail regarding his wishes 

so it's a very simple question to the original solicitor:
If the OP's uncle spoke clearly and went into great detail about his revised wishes - where is the will that resulted from that meeting?

jasdog

p00hsticks said:

Pollycat said:

Re the bit in bold:
If that is the case why didn't the solicitor draft the new will?

The OP isn't very clear and I've not re-read the whole thread but the first post refers to both a new will and an old will. My understanding is that the solicitor did indeed draft the old will (it's not clear if it was then signed and witnessed and therefore valid ?), but the uncle decided he wasn't happy with the content at some later date (again, not clear how much time elapsed before he came to the decision) and so got relatives to draft a DIY wil to supercede it and got it witnressed.

Thank you for interest my uncle made the old Will 2015 and asked the solicitor who draughted the will to attend him in hospital to make chnges or produce a new Will it was after this meeting my uncle was very concerned his wishes were not going to carried out . He was very disatisfied with the solicitors visit and looked to me for my help . A quick internet search and will template was produced with his new wishes which he signed and was witnessed by hospital staff whom he had built up very good and trusting relationship with. He also signed letter informing the original solicitor he no longer required his legal services which delivered and receipt obtained from his office. When my uncle passed away his new Will was granted probate Feb 2020 the estate was dispersed June 2020 . The excluded charities were informed by the solicitor of the old Will in May 2020 the challenge from the charities  as been ongoing to date.

RetSol

I strongly suggest that you instruct a solicitor (a new one, not your uncle's) to deal with the claimants/charities. 

It will cost a few quid but may save you a lot of time and trouble in the long run. 

The charity trustees are simply doing their job in querying the circumstances of your uncle's probated will. 

A letter from your solicitor setting out the position as you have described it here may well be enough to see the claim off.

I suggest that the beneficiaries instruct the solicitor jointly and that you ask the other beneficiaries to contribute to the costs as failure to defend the claim will have implications for all of you. 

Don't deal with this by yourself. 

jasdog

RetSol said:

I strongly suggest that you instruct a solicitor (a new one, not your uncle's) to deal with the claimants/charities. 

It will cost a few quid but may save you a lot of time and trouble in the long run. 

The charity trustees are simply doing their job in querying the circumstances of your uncle's probated will. 

A letter from your solicitor setting out the position as you have described it here may well be enough to see the claim off.

I suggest that the beneficiaries instruct the solicitor jointly and that you ask the other beneficiaries to contribute to the costs as failure to defend the claim will have implications for all of you. 

Don't deal with this by yourself. 

Thank you for your interest please read earlier posts alot as already happened .

RetSol

Thank you for your interest .

It's a pleasure, @jasdog.

I wish you success. 

Dr_Crypto

Flugelhorn said:

Dr_Crypto said:

Who witnessed the new will? You said medical staff - doctors? If so there will be no real issues with capacity since they can state they felt your uncle did have capacity and they’re more likely to be experienced in assessing it than a solicitor. 

Those costs seem very steep. 

all that is asked is that the witnesses sign to say that they have seen the person sign the will, they are not giving an opinion on whether the person has capacity

Not for medical people. I can’t see a registered professional agreeing to witness a document for an incapacitated person. 

Their involvement will be very powerful indeed. 

Flugelhorn

Dr_Crypto said:

Flugelhorn said:

Dr_Crypto said:

Who witnessed the new will? You said medical staff - doctors? If so there will be no real issues with capacity since they can state they felt your uncle did have capacity and they’re more likely to be experienced in assessing it than a solicitor. 

Those costs seem very steep. 

all that is asked is that the witnesses sign to say that they have seen the person sign the will, they are not giving an opinion on whether the person has capacity

Not for medical people. I can’t see a registered professional agreeing to witness a document for an incapacitated person. 

Their involvement will be very powerful indeed. 

can't see a sensible medical person touching this with the very long barge pole TBH 

yes medics  involvement is powerful but risky for them

"so Dr Horn, have you specialist training in the assessment of medical capacity for legal purposes?
Can you outline the assessment?
how long have you been doing this? 
How many times have you done this before?"

GPs tending to avoid LPOA certificate providing - better done by a friend as they won't be open to the questions above

Dr_Crypto

Most doctors make capacity assessments on a regular basis*. Same for other professionals who have to decide if the person can consent to treatment. 

You get training on the MCA through work. 

*when I was doing front line hero shifts (TM) it was at least once a shift.