Google Took Money via Pay Pal Under a Fraudulent Transaction, Neither Will Refund.

noisysaver

Last month I noticed a rash of payments coming out of my PP account, first £1.99, then 5.99, 17.99 which kept increasing until 2 £169.99 payments were taken at which point I was able to shut things down via my own bank and then via Pay Pal. None of these payments were authorised, on looking on the Pay Pal account they were made to Google for various services, mostly to a company called Twitch for subscriptions and buying some kind of e-currency bits. Although I'm aware of Twitch I don't have an account with them nor have ever used the service. I filed an unauthorised payment claim against Google who rejected all 38 payments that were taken with a generic email. Pay Pal did the same a week later. My own bank Nationwide said that because it was made via Direct Debit, nothing could be done since Pay Pal told them they were authorised - which they were absolutely not. The most annoying thing about all of this is that I still don't know how it happened. It could happen again unless I can get to the bottom of where the compromise occurred and no one in the chain seems to want to deal with that aspect of this problem. Payments were made to Google but on all of my Google pay and associated accounts such as Play etc, no payments appear. Only on the Pay Pal system do they show.

So I want to pursue this through the courts if possible, just shy of £700 gone across 3 days, I made 22 transactions in 5 months and then 38 in 3 days and no official warning from Pay Pal or the bank as to unusual activity. I did get a text message purporting to be Pay Pal saying £299 was to be taken but on checking no such payment was on the statement or pending and when I went to reply to the message it said I was going to be charged so I dismissed it as a scam - having an unlimited text phone plan. Not being able to speak to anyone has also been mind numbing, just generic emails with the same response for every claim and no possibility to respond or a name of anyone who had dealt with the claim. so I'm after advice as to what angle to take. I've had many successes in the courts over the years so know the process but this is new to me, mostly because of the layers of complexity and what the actual claim would be.

Any help much appreciated.

bap98189

Twitch run online games including Fortnite. Could someone in your household have used your Paypal details to set up online payments in those games? Once the payment details are uploaded, they can make in game purchases.

Have you changed the password and other security information for your Paypal account? If not do this immediately or the payments will continue. 

Phone your bank and cancel the direct debit instruction to Paypal. At the very least that will stop any more money being taken.

[Deleted User]

Your post doesn't make a lot of sense.
For Paypal payments, you would have received an email for each transaction. You say Google payments was used, so they would have also emailed you. What email address was used for Twitch? 
Direct debits can be refunded under the direct debit guarantee, so that doesn't make any sense either. How is Paypal linked to your Google Pay account? You can't use Paypal to fund Google Pay so how did that happen?

DoaM

On an Android device then in-game payments may well be made via Google Wallet. It could be that the OP's Google account has been setup to fund the Wallet via Paypal, which is funded from their Nationwide debit card.

TizerBunny

camelot1971 said:

Your post doesn't make a lot of sense.
For Paypal payments, you would have received an email for each transaction. You say Google payments was used, so they would have also emailed you. What email address was used for Twitch? 
Direct debits can be refunded under the direct debit guarantee, so that doesn't make any sense either. How is Paypal linked to your Google Pay account? You can't use Paypal to fund Google Pay so how did that happen?

Agreed Direct Debits can be refunded under the direct debit guarantee. You can send a letter to Nationwide however PayPal are likely to try and recover the debt, I'd suggest if PayPal have your card details contacting your bank(s) and getting new cards with new numbers on them first. PayPal will then sell the debt and debt collectors will start hassling you.

noisysaver

To answer some questions:
The bank are unable to refund, I tried them after trying the dead end of Pay Pal and Google. They are saying that because the DD setup has been confirmed, any payments are 'authorised'. I spoke to a really helpful lady who said the bank had done all they could and I would have to chase PP for the refund. Had it had been linked through the Visa, it would have been instant but the DD is what has caused the problems - I never even knew it was funded that way, apparently setup 5+ years ago.

My son does have Fortnite on the PS4 but the PS4 is password protected and no payments can be made. Besides the PS4 system IS linked to my credit card. The payments were apparently made through Google, that is what is showing on the statement. All PS4 payments appear directly on my bank linked to the CC, not via PP.

I did discover PP had emailed every transaction but they happened quickly, in a matter of just over 48 hours. I don't check my email every day and also they didn't appear in my inbox but rather in G-Mail once I had clicked 'all mail', so they were not on the front page of the inbox. Once I saw them there it was then that I took steps to secure things. I have it now where I have 2 step on all payments made.

Everything was immediately locked down - but I still don't know how the payments came out and Google or PP have not told me either.

Regards the Android post, I have my bank account linked via Visa for things like Play and Pay but it's all password protected and only on my own device. This is where the confusion is, if I knew how it happened things would be a lot easier to track down and then work out exactly what went down here.

I have had all my cards replaced, cancelled DD's with PP, everything is totally secure. I'm sure I can gain some leverage here in that these were all totally unauthorised and to make matters worse, if they were authorised, I haven't had a scrap of value or material back for my £700.

stragglebod

noisysaver said:

My son does have Fortnite on the PS4

I think this is where you should be directing your attention.

bris

Twitch has nothing to so with the PS4, it's owned by Amazon and has a different payment system. The account could have been set up by your son if he knew your details.

They watch their favourite streamers for tips etc and for some weird reason I am still to get my head round they actually gift them money, there are a lot of streamers that make literally millions every year by mugs giving them money to play games. 

noisysaver

We have looked into the Fortnite link but whilst my son does occasionally play the game, along with a bunch of other games, there is no way he could have done this via the PS4. I've investigated it thoroughly and if there is a mechanism by which he can take money, vis Google, from Pay Pal through the PS4, no one seems to be aware of it and no payments were made through the CC that I have set up on there, the account shows nothing. I also trust him regards the answers he gave when we confronted him about the possibility he may have made the purchases. He's been playing Fortnite since it came out, some 3 years now and we've never had any incident that would even cause us to think he may have done it. The fact that multiple Twitch subscriptions were purchased tell me it was fraudulent because why would you need more than 1?

baza52

log into your sons fortnight account and see if any purchases were made on it

noisysaver

We have done, all purchases made are ones I've authorised via 2 step, nothing has been bought via Fortnite which is not what the vendor is as per the PP statement, all payments went via/to Google. Fortnite payments are made via the PS4 wallet.  linked to my CC.