Ratesetter Release Delays

ZeroSum

MinuteNoodles said:

mikb said:

I'm sure Ratesetter's legal team would be as fascinated as I am to hear what evidence you have for them running a "pyramid selling scheme" ?

You can't get your money out until others put money in. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Literally how ponzi and pyramid schemes function.

And no I don't have money in Ratesetter because I'm not an idiot who is stupid enough to lend to people that the biggest banks in the world with centuries of experience of calculating risk deemed too risky to lend to.

No. You get your money back when the borrower makes the monthly repayments. P2P aren't meant to be like savings accounts, they're loans. 

IvanOpinion

MinuteNoodles said:

mikb said:

I'm sure Ratesetter's legal team would be as fascinated as I am to hear what evidence you have for them running a "pyramid selling scheme" ?

You can't get your money out until others put money in. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Literally how ponzi and pyramid schemes function.

And no I don't have money in Ratesetter because I'm not an idiot who is stupid enough to lend to people that the biggest banks in the world with centuries of experience of calculating risk deemed too risky to lend to.

You show a total lack of understanding of peer-to-peer and pyramid schemes

wizzards

ZeroSum said:

MinuteNoodles said:

mikb said:

I'm sure Ratesetter's legal team would be as fascinated as I am to hear what evidence you have for them running a "pyramid selling scheme" ?

You can't get your money out until others put money in. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Literally how ponzi and pyramid schemes function.

And no I don't have money in Ratesetter because I'm not an idiot who is stupid enough to lend to people that the biggest banks in the world with centuries of experience of calculating risk deemed too risky to lend to.

No. You get your money back when the borrower makes the monthly repayments. P2P aren't meant to be like savings accounts, they're loans. 

No you don't get your money back when the borrower makes the monthly repayments because ratesetter immediately lend it out again. In the access account which is the most common one for persons to have  "You only get your money back when liquidity is enough for them to pay it back"  Ratesetter are still making new loans ? or using your repayments to fund persons in the front of the repayment queue.   So if you are lender and in position 18000 in the withdrawl queue and your borrowers make the monthly payment part goes in the provision fund, the rest of it goes to pay the persons at the front of the queue.
If you look at the figures they show to date the amount of borrowers far exceeds the lenders.

Key figures July 2020

Total amount lent 3,971,826,502

Total amount under management 743,856,698

Provision Fund cash balance 6,260,186

Expected Provision Fund Inflows 19,275,113

Total repayments made by borrowers 3,182,577,282

Total repayments made by Provision Fund 215,895,599

Total repaid to investors 3,398,472,882

Total interest returned to investors 176,475,090

Liquidity provided. i.e. Total Sell Outs 908,153,058

Total number of matches 61,095,170

Investors 86,920

Borrowers 683,493

Total number of loans 833,343

Average term of loans 27

Average remaining term of outstanding loans 19

macman

I just rechecked my 'progress' in the release queue for Access. I've moved up a whole 37 places in the last week. But, with 15,152 people still in front of me, at this rate it will take just under 8 years to reach the front of the queue...

ZeroSum

wizzards said:

ZeroSum said:

MinuteNoodles said:

mikb said:

I'm sure Ratesetter's legal team would be as fascinated as I am to hear what evidence you have for them running a "pyramid selling scheme" ?

You can't get your money out until others put money in. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Literally how ponzi and pyramid schemes function.

And no I don't have money in Ratesetter because I'm not an idiot who is stupid enough to lend to people that the biggest banks in the world with centuries of experience of calculating risk deemed too risky to lend to.

No. You get your money back when the borrower makes the monthly repayments. P2P aren't meant to be like savings accounts, they're loans. 

No you don't get your money back when the borrower makes the monthly repayments because ratesetter immediately lend it out again. In the access account which is the most common one for persons to have  "You only get your money back when liquidity is enough for them to pay it back"  Ratesetter are still making new loans ? or using your repayments to fund persons in the front of the repayment queue.   So if you are lender and in position 18000 in the withdrawl queue and your borrowers make the monthly payment part goes in the provision fund, the rest of it goes to pay the persons at the front of the queue.
If you look at the figures they show to date the amount of borrowers far exceeds the lenders.

Key figures July 2020

Total amount lent 3,971,826,502

Total amount under management 743,856,698

Provision Fund cash balance 6,260,186

Expected Provision Fund Inflows 19,275,113

Total repayments made by borrowers 3,182,577,282

Total repayments made by Provision Fund 215,895,599

Total repaid to investors 3,398,472,882

Total interest returned to investors 176,475,090

Liquidity provided. i.e. Total Sell Outs 908,153,058

Total number of matches 61,095,170

Investors 86,920

Borrowers 683,493

Total number of loans 833,343

Average term of loans 27

Average remaining term of outstanding loans 19

There's an option on the lending settings to return funds to holding account. It's only the access option that doesn't allow this, which all you do it set your lending rate to 10% so it doesn't get lent out.
So yes, you do get your money back in monthly installments.

I've got a few quid in ratesetter, and have been managing fine to withdraw my monthly repayments

That there's more borrowers than lenders just means that the amount investors have in is greater than the average loan. 

wizzards

ZeroSum said:

wizzards said:

ZeroSum said:

MinuteNoodles said:

mikb said:

I'm sure Ratesetter's legal team would be as fascinated as I am to hear what evidence you have for them running a "pyramid selling scheme" ?

You can't get your money out until others put money in. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Literally how ponzi and pyramid schemes function.

And no I don't have money in Ratesetter because I'm not an idiot who is stupid enough to lend to people that the biggest banks in the world with centuries of experience of calculating risk deemed too risky to lend to.

No. You get your money back when the borrower makes the monthly repayments. P2P aren't meant to be like savings accounts, they're loans. 

No you don't get your money back when the borrower makes the monthly repayments because ratesetter immediately lend it out again. In the access account which is the most common one for persons to have  "You only get your money back when liquidity is enough for them to pay it back"  Ratesetter are still making new loans ? or using your repayments to fund persons in the front of the repayment queue.   So if you are lender and in position 18000 in the withdrawl queue and your borrowers make the monthly payment part goes in the provision fund, the rest of it goes to pay the persons at the front of the queue.
If you look at the figures they show to date the amount of borrowers far exceeds the lenders.

Key figures July 2020

Total amount lent 3,971,826,502

Total amount under management 743,856,698

Provision Fund cash balance 6,260,186

Expected Provision Fund Inflows 19,275,113

Total repayments made by borrowers 3,182,577,282

Total repayments made by Provision Fund 215,895,599

Total repaid to investors 3,398,472,882

Total interest returned to investors 176,475,090

Liquidity provided. i.e. Total Sell Outs 908,153,058

Total number of matches 61,095,170

Investors 86,920

Borrowers 683,493

Total number of loans 833,343

Average term of loans 27

Average remaining term of outstanding loans 19

There's an option on the lending settings to return funds to holding account. It's only the access option that doesn't allow this, which all you do it set your lending rate to 10% so it doesn't get lent out.
So yes, you do get your money back in monthly installments.

I've got a few quid in ratesetter, and have been managing fine to withdraw my monthly repayments

That there's more borrowers than lenders just means that the amount investors have in is greater than the average loan. 

The only way to get any money out of Access before you reach the front of the repayment queue is to increase the rate manually upto +5% (the max allowed) on top of the base rate giving you a lending rate of 8% and login each day morning and evening and withdraw what is either in the holding account or out in the queue for lending.  Depending on loans you could get quite a bit out this way.  I have a mix and all my requests are in a queue but I am closer to the front of that queue than most persons for the products they don't offer any more.   Given that you can get 1% return or more at National Savings why would you want to risk your cash any longer with something that could end up in trouble but as with all ideas if one is unsure you can take professional advice.   Zopa is now changing their rate structure for loans and suffering a bit. Under the circumstances its hardly surprising.  What annoys me is that Ratesetter continue to give new loans.  I don't see that helps lenders who want their cash.  Some persons probably have become unemployed and need their money.

Sailtheworld

ZeroSum said:

MinuteNoodles said:

mikb said:

I'm sure Ratesetter's legal team would be as fascinated as I am to hear what evidence you have for them running a "pyramid selling scheme" ?

You can't get your money out until others put money in. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Literally how ponzi and pyramid schemes function.

And no I don't have money in Ratesetter because I'm not an idiot who is stupid enough to lend to people that the biggest banks in the world with centuries of experience of calculating risk deemed too risky to lend to.

No. You get your money back when the borrower makes the monthly repayments. P2P aren't meant to be like savings accounts, they're loans. 

The business model is based on Northern Rock's although, rather cleverly, there's nowhere to go and queue to get money back and the T&Cs have been worded such that if there is a run it can be turned into a slow run that might allow sufficient time for the model to recover.

It is a classic slow run. People coming up with special workarounds to extract cash, special virtual queues (which are basically made up) and bonuses being swapped for the promise of bonuses.

P2P isn't equivalent to a savings account and the higher interest rates on offer should've made this patently obvious there must be additional risk but we shouldn't kid ourselves that lots of people (most?) did see P2P as equivalent to savings. We also shouldn't kid ourselves that the senior teams at P2P aren't meeting up every morning to try and think up new ways to prevent payments out.

If people weren't trying to extract funds I'm sure everything would be OK but, no matter how irrational it is to try and extract cash, the worst place to be when that runs starts is at the back of the queue.

ZeroSum

wizzards said:

ZeroSum said:

wizzards said:

ZeroSum said:

MinuteNoodles said:

mikb said:

I'm sure Ratesetter's legal team would be as fascinated as I am to hear what evidence you have for them running a "pyramid selling scheme" ?

You can't get your money out until others put money in. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Literally how ponzi and pyramid schemes function.

And no I don't have money in Ratesetter because I'm not an idiot who is stupid enough to lend to people that the biggest banks in the world with centuries of experience of calculating risk deemed too risky to lend to.

No. You get your money back when the borrower makes the monthly repayments. P2P aren't meant to be like savings accounts, they're loans. 

No you don't get your money back when the borrower makes the monthly repayments because ratesetter immediately lend it out again. In the access account which is the most common one for persons to have  "You only get your money back when liquidity is enough for them to pay it back"  Ratesetter are still making new loans ? or using your repayments to fund persons in the front of the repayment queue.   So if you are lender and in position 18000 in the withdrawl queue and your borrowers make the monthly payment part goes in the provision fund, the rest of it goes to pay the persons at the front of the queue.
If you look at the figures they show to date the amount of borrowers far exceeds the lenders.

Key figures July 2020

Total amount lent 3,971,826,502

Total amount under management 743,856,698

Provision Fund cash balance 6,260,186

Expected Provision Fund Inflows 19,275,113

Total repayments made by borrowers 3,182,577,282

Total repayments made by Provision Fund 215,895,599

Total repaid to investors 3,398,472,882

Total interest returned to investors 176,475,090

Liquidity provided. i.e. Total Sell Outs 908,153,058

Total number of matches 61,095,170

Investors 86,920

Borrowers 683,493

Total number of loans 833,343

Average term of loans 27

Average remaining term of outstanding loans 19

There's an option on the lending settings to return funds to holding account. It's only the access option that doesn't allow this, which all you do it set your lending rate to 10% so it doesn't get lent out.
So yes, you do get your money back in monthly installments.

I've got a few quid in ratesetter, and have been managing fine to withdraw my monthly repayments

That there's more borrowers than lenders just means that the amount investors have in is greater than the average loan. 

The only way to get any money out of Access before you reach the front of the repayment queue is to increase the rate manually upto +5% (the max allowed) on top of the base rate and login each day morning and evening and withdraw what is either in the holding account or out in the queue for lending.  Depending on loans you could get quite a bit out this way.  I have a mix and all of them are in a queue but I am closer to the front of that queue than most persons.   Given that you can get 1% return or more at National Savings why would you want to risk your cash any longer with something that could end up in trouble but as with all ideas if one is unsure you can take professional advice.   Zopa is now changing their rate structure for loans and suffering a bit. Under the circumstances its hardly surprising.  What annoys me is that Ratesetter continue to give new loans.  I don't see that helps lenders who want their cash.  Some persons probably have become unemployed and need their money.

The 5% limit is something they've only just introduced cos mine is set at 8%
Ive only got a bit in access anyway as I managed to grab a load of 9% Investments about 18 months back
But even at 5% it won't be loaned out straight away and just logging in on the morning to return money isn't a big issue. 

wizzards

Sailtheworld said:

ZeroSum said:

MinuteNoodles said:

mikb said:

I'm sure Ratesetter's legal team would be as fascinated as I am to hear what evidence you have for them running a "pyramid selling scheme" ?

You can't get your money out until others put money in. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Literally how ponzi and pyramid schemes function.

And no I don't have money in Ratesetter because I'm not an idiot who is stupid enough to lend to people that the biggest banks in the world with centuries of experience of calculating risk deemed too risky to lend to.

No. You get your money back when the borrower makes the monthly repayments. P2P aren't meant to be like savings accounts, they're loans. 

The business model is based on Northern Rock's although, rather cleverly, there's nowhere to go and queue to get money back and the T&Cs have been worded such that if there is a run it can be turned into a slow run that might allow sufficient time for the model to recover.

It is a classic slow run. People coming up with special workarounds to extract cash, special virtual queues (which are basically made up) and bonuses being swapped for the promise of bonuses.

P2P isn't equivalent to a savings account and the higher interest rates on offer should've made this patently obvious there must be additional risk but we shouldn't kid ourselves that lots of people (most?) did see P2P as equivalent to savings. We also shouldn't kid ourselves that the senior teams at P2P aren't meeting up every morning to try and think up new ways to prevent payments out.

If people weren't trying to extract funds I'm sure everything would be OK but, no matter how irrational it is to try and extract cash, the worst place to be when that runs starts is at the back of the queue.

Exactly.   Some persons are panicking.  The same happened at Lendy.  It's just like if there is a run on the banks they run out of cash.  As an investor my view is if you can't afford to lose your cash P2P is not the right thing to invest in.  Also as a business why would ratesetter want to sell out its business to Metro Bank who is also a loss business ?  Someone will profit from that but for sure it won't be the people lending at ratesetter.

I am also thinking if you had to update the government mandated "appropriateness test" for lenders because of a change in circumstances how does that affect lending.  In real terms there could be people as a result of the Corona virus who no longer meet the criteria for certain categories of investor ?  ZOPA for example make investors periodically renew their declaration.

mikb

MinuteNoodles said:

mikb said:

I'm sure Ratesetter's legal team would be as fascinated as I am to hear what evidence you have for them running a "pyramid selling scheme" ?

You can't get your money out until others put money in. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Literally how ponzi and pyramid schemes function.

And no I don't have money in Ratesetter because I'm not an idiot ...

Well, I'm glad you have the courage to stand by your wrong opinion, factually incorrect and libellous as it is.


I'm able to withdraw money each month from Ratesetter. The loans Ratesetter made are being repaid, with interest (albeit reduced), and that money can be withdrawn.


As to your final comment, I'll leave others to decide your status on that one.