Land ownership argument

renegadefm

I will try to explain this in the best detail I can, but its something that has niggled me ever since it happened.
Basically my dad owns two houses on the end of a terrace of four. 
He was in the middle of purchasing some land at the rear of adjacent properties which was basically back gardens to turn it into off road parking for the two properties he owns as the alternative means parking on a busy road. 
So to make this possible he had to apply to the council to make it into parking and ask permission for cars to access the land. He paid in the region of a thousand pounds I seem to remember to get this passed as the neighbour selling the land already agreed for dad to have first shout at it as they knew he was spending all this planning permission money out. 
And in the end he was granted the permission, but to his amazement because the council dragged their heels on it for over a year, the neighbour selling the land assumed it wasent granted and sold it to the adjacent neighbour instead without even telling dad they sold it. 
So they basically now got it as an extended garden and dont even use it as parking. 
But my main question is could dad have claimed the £1000 back he paid out to the council at the time as it was intended to be his land.
Theres nothing stopping the neighbour now benefitting from the permission granted and turn it into parking for themselves. They might not even know its eligible for cars to park in there. 
Is 20 odd years too late to dig this up now? I know your thinking why didnt dad do that back at the time, but I dont think he had the nature to do it. 

theonlywayisup

An odd situation - applying for Planning Permission on something you don't own.

shaun_from_Africa

theonlywayisup said:

An odd situation - applying for Planning Permission on something you don't own.

There is nothing stopping anyone applying for planning permission for land that they don't own provided that the owners and anyone else with an interest in the land have been notified of the application.
If you are thinking of spending 10's or 100's of thousands of £'s  on land with the intention of building on it, it might well make sense to spend a relatively small sum to make sure that you can do the building before shelling out a far larger sum on the land itself only to find that you are not allowed to build.

renegadefm

theonlywayisup said:

An odd situation - applying for Planning Permission on something you don't own.

Well he didnt want to buy the land if the council didnt approve permission to park cars in there because basically it would have meant crossing a pavement to access it for a start. Then there is insurance issues that need to be addressed in case of a car caught fire for example. 
But he had a verbal agreement to have first chance of the back gardens to make this possible. But the seller of the land assumed it wasent going ahead and sold the land to the house adjacent to his and the seller. When he confronted them about it and said what about our deal? They simply acted dumb and said they assumed the council didnt approve it, but they did approve it. But by then it was sold.
How can dad technically get his money back he paid out on permission fees?

theonlywayisup

shaun_from_Africa said:

theonlywayisup said:

An odd situation - applying for Planning Permission on something you don't own.

There is nothing stopping anyone applying for planning permission for land that they don't own provided that the owners and anyone else with an interest in the land have been notified of the application.
If you are thinking of spending 10's or 100's of thousands of £'s  on land with the intention of building on it, it might well make sense to spend a relatively small sum to make sure that you can do the building before shelling out a far larger sum on the land itself only to find that you are not allowed to build.

I agree, but seems an odd situation when the OP is here asking about getting the fee back.  Hardly a speculative adventure. 

To the OP, why would you think the fees are refundable?  The PP has been approved. 

daveyjp

He should have had a land sale contract drawn up which was subject to securing planning.  Too late now.

George_Michael

renegadefm said:

Theres nothing stopping the neighbour now benefitting from the permission granted and turn it into parking for themselves. They might not even know its eligible for cars to park in there. 
Is 20 odd years too late to dig this up now? I know your thinking why didnt dad do that back at the time, but I dont think he had the nature to do it. 

Planning permission normally expires 3 years after it's been granted unless the work concerned has already been started so if it was 20+ years since your father was granted approval, I doubt if it will be of any use to the new owners.

renegadefm

theonlywayisup said:

shaun_from_Africa said:

theonlywayisup said:

An odd situation - applying for Planning Permission on something you don't own.

There is nothing stopping anyone applying for planning permission for land that they don't own provided that the owners and anyone else with an interest in the land have been notified of the application.
If you are thinking of spending 10's or 100's of thousands of £'s  on land with the intention of building on it, it might well make sense to spend a relatively small sum to make sure that you can do the building before shelling out a far larger sum on the land itself only to find that you are not allowed to build.

I agree, but seems an odd situation when the OP is here asking about getting the fee back.  Hardly a speculative adventure. 

To the OP, why would you think the fees are refundable?  The PP has been approved. 

Well thats why I thought I'd put the situation out there to see what people say. I just have felt sorry for dad because he spent out all this money with the intent to use the land for parking for two houses. But the rug was pulled from under his feet.
Basically hes paid for parking planning permission for someone else now because the seller let him down.
I just thought there must be something the council should have done to block the sale to someone else while the permissions were going on. I dont know. 
All I remember is the neighbour had an agreement to sell it to dad once the permissions were granted. But because it took over a year the seller sold it to the house adjacent to dads. 
Its now hanging over me like a bad smell as I live in one of the houses in question and need to park off the road ideally. I can get cheaper car insurance for a start. Plus its safer to get in and out of a car. 

theonlywayisup

renegadefm said:

theonlywayisup said:

shaun_from_Africa said:

theonlywayisup said:

An odd situation - applying for Planning Permission on something you don't own.

There is nothing stopping anyone applying for planning permission for land that they don't own provided that the owners and anyone else with an interest in the land have been notified of the application.
If you are thinking of spending 10's or 100's of thousands of £'s  on land with the intention of building on it, it might well make sense to spend a relatively small sum to make sure that you can do the building before shelling out a far larger sum on the land itself only to find that you are not allowed to build.

I agree, but seems an odd situation when the OP is here asking about getting the fee back.  Hardly a speculative adventure. 

To the OP, why would you think the fees are refundable?  The PP has been approved. 

Well thats why I thought I'd put the situation out there to see what people say. I just have felt sorry for dad because he spent out all this money with the intent to use the land for parking for two houses. But the rug was pulled from under his feet.
Basically hes paid for parking planning permission for someone else now because the seller let him down.
I just thought there must be something the council should have done to block the sale to someone else while the permissions were going on. I dont know. 
All I remember is the neighbour had an agreement to sell it to dad once the permissions were granted. But because it took over a year the seller sold it to the house adjacent to dads. 
Its now hanging over me like a bad smell as I live in one of the houses in question and need to park off the road ideally. I can get cheaper car insurance for a start. Plus its safer to get in and out of a car. 

He paid for Planning Permission, which was granted.

The fact he doesn't own the land is sadly not part of the equation.

Why has it taken 20 years?  I am guessing because you are there now it has become relevant.  Have you approached the owner to see if you can buy the bit you need?

bris

So your dad didn't complete the land sale , a year passed and you expected the seller to think the sale was still on and you want them to give you a grand? And this was 20 years ago. You're having a laugh.

renegadefm

bris said:

So your dad didn't complete the land sale , a year passed and you expected the seller to think the sale was still on and you want them to give you a grand? And this was 20 years ago. You're having a laugh.

Well the conversation came up recently because I live now in one of the houses that was denied the parking, and my partner said recently why on earth was this not resolved at the time. Because she would have been fuming mad why the neighbour let my dad down after he spent the money to gain legal parking access on the land. 
So we both now have rekindled if you like emotion we feel for dad. 
Its adding salt to the wound now too seeing the neighbour who bought the land having barbecues and their kids playing on the land that should have been our parking area. 
I doubt this will ever settle well on our minds.