SEISS - Average earnings & grant calculation - Appeal Success?

fazer169

Jeremy535897 said:

fazer169 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

MadMattUK said:

@fazer169
I believe that you are correct in that HMRC should not average amounts of self-employed vs non-self-employed in relation to eligibility, you should be able to claim based on 18/09, so long as in 18/09 more than 50% of your income was from eligible self-employment and your average trading profit was below £50,000.

The part that I believe you are incorrect on is calculating the grant. You said "You should only be looking at all years to work out the amount of grant not the eligibility.", however that is incorrect, the grant is calculated based on eligible years, so if 17/18 was not an eligible year then it will not be included in the calculation, they would only use 18/19.

If you want anyone to check the figures then let us know the amount of eligible self-employed trading profit in the last three years, plus the total for your other sources of income in those years, broken down by year and someone can check your figures. 

No. Fazer is correct. Just dealing with the 50% test and grant calculation (so assuming profits under £50,000) for someone trading throughout 2016/17 to 2018/19, the steps are as follows:
A. Is 2018/19 trading income at least equal to 2018/19 other taxable income? If yes, go to C. If not, go to B.
B Is 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19 trading income in total at least equal to 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19 other taxable income in total? If yes, go to C. If not, no grant.
C Calculate grant based on trading income for 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19 divided by 36 times 3 times 80% capped at £7,500 (for first grant). It does not matter that for, say, 2017/18 trading income was exceeded by other taxable income.

In my case I am eligible under A.  They do not go to C.  The regulation state that you are eligible if you meet condition A, B or C.  As I meet condition A then I am eligible and no need to look at any other conditions.  I have been reassessed twice again stating that I am ineligible as I don't meet condition C.

The profits condition is met if-

(a) where the person is not subject to the loan charge, the person meets condition A, B or C
The scenario you suggest would only apply if the regulations stated A or B and C.
Still fighting including a letter of complaint to HMRC, the Chancellor and my MP,

My A B C were not intended to reflect any of the conditions A to E in the Direction. They were just steps to go through if you traded in all 3 years 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19.

Ah, I get it now.  No criticism intended.  I agree with your assessement.  I am unfortunately getting nowhere with them and have written a letter of complaint, a letter to my MP and to the Chancellor as well as asking for a further re-assessment.  I am worried about the deadline slipping away.  I will shortly be applying online every day for a reassessment.   If they are getting it wrong with me I do wonder how many people have been rejected unfairly due to their errors as the online system rejects me and the manual reassessment rejects me.

Jeremy535897

fazer169 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

fazer169 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

MadMattUK said:

@fazer169
I believe that you are correct in that HMRC should not average amounts of self-employed vs non-self-employed in relation to eligibility, you should be able to claim based on 18/09, so long as in 18/09 more than 50% of your income was from eligible self-employment and your average trading profit was below £50,000.

The part that I believe you are incorrect on is calculating the grant. You said "You should only be looking at all years to work out the amount of grant not the eligibility.", however that is incorrect, the grant is calculated based on eligible years, so if 17/18 was not an eligible year then it will not be included in the calculation, they would only use 18/19.

If you want anyone to check the figures then let us know the amount of eligible self-employed trading profit in the last three years, plus the total for your other sources of income in those years, broken down by year and someone can check your figures. 

No. Fazer is correct. Just dealing with the 50% test and grant calculation (so assuming profits under £50,000) for someone trading throughout 2016/17 to 2018/19, the steps are as follows:
A. Is 2018/19 trading income at least equal to 2018/19 other taxable income? If yes, go to C. If not, go to B.
B Is 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19 trading income in total at least equal to 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19 other taxable income in total? If yes, go to C. If not, no grant.
C Calculate grant based on trading income for 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19 divided by 36 times 3 times 80% capped at £7,500 (for first grant). It does not matter that for, say, 2017/18 trading income was exceeded by other taxable income.

In my case I am eligible under A.  They do not go to C.  The regulation state that you are eligible if you meet condition A, B or C.  As I meet condition A then I am eligible and no need to look at any other conditions.  I have been reassessed twice again stating that I am ineligible as I don't meet condition C.

The profits condition is met if-

(a) where the person is not subject to the loan charge, the person meets condition A, B or C
The scenario you suggest would only apply if the regulations stated A or B and C.
Still fighting including a letter of complaint to HMRC, the Chancellor and my MP,

My A B C were not intended to reflect any of the conditions A to E in the Direction. They were just steps to go through if you traded in all 3 years 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19.

Ah, I get it now.  No criticism intended.  I agree with your assessement.  I am unfortunately getting nowhere with them and have written a letter of complaint, a letter to my MP and to the Chancellor as well as asking for a further re-assessment.  I am worried about the deadline slipping away.  I will shortly be applying online every day for a reassessment.   If they are getting it wrong with me I do wonder how many people have been rejected unfairly due to their errors as the online system rejects me and the manual reassessment rejects me.

I think the fact that you have applied means you have met the deadline of 13 July.