SEISS - Average earnings & grant calculation - Appeal Success?

Jeremy535897

My post explains the issue. What you quote is not the Direction. It is only guidance. Paragraph 10 of the Direction is the legislation. That was also why I asked whether a nil SA103S was filed in 2017/18. You have to approve your returns before they are submitted, so it's no good just saying your accountant does it all. There might be an argument if there was no SA103S in 2017/18, but I would not be hopeful.

ChloeCordelia

Hello, I have appealed  my grant amount and had an unchanged response. I have now gone down the formal complaint route which was advised by a hmrc telephone advisor. 

My case is. I registered as self employed on 03/04/18 and filed a tax return with £0 trading profits for that year. As it was 3 days, thinking at the time it was the most honest thing to do! I then worked a full year and filed around £16k Trading profits for 18/19. They have calculated my grant on 2 years. Meaning I’ve basically got 40% of my income. The telephone advisor suggested I write to my local MP. Could we start a petition to get the way these grants are calculated to be done fairly. I’m absolutely distraught over my financial situation. I cannot return to work until at least the 4th of July. It 100% hasn’t been fairly calculated for 1000s of people. Why should we be penalised for when we started Self-employment in the tax year? Do I have a leg to stand on with £0 trading profits? Is anyone in the same situation as me? 

Jeremy535897

ChloeCordelia said:

Hello, I have appealed  my grant amount and had an unchanged response. I have now gone down the formal complaint route which was advised by a hmrc telephone advisor. 

My case is. I registered as self employed on 03/04/18 and filed a tax return with £0 trading profits for that year. As it was 3 days, thinking at the time it was the most honest thing to do! I then worked a full year and filed around £16k Trading profits for 18/19. They have calculated my grant on 2 years. Meaning I’ve basically got 40% of my income. The telephone advisor suggested I write to my local MP. Could we start a petition to get the way these grants are calculated to be done fairly. I’m absolutely distraught over my financial situation. I cannot return to work until at least the 4th of July. It 100% hasn’t been fairly calculated for 1000s of people. Why should we be penalised for when we started Self-employment in the tax year? Do I have a leg to stand on with £0 trading profits? Is anyone in the same situation as me? 

Unfortunately as you stated you were self employed in 2017/18, HMRC have applied the rules correctly. There are many people in the same position, although not all as extreme as 3 days. By all means speak to your MP. HMRC have no authority to reach a different conclusion, based on what you filed.

In future, start your own thread rather than adding to another with a different point.

karenindevon

mcooke999 said:

I'm just wondering if anyone has heard back from HMRC who have appealed against their SEISS grant calculation due to them not agreeing with how the calculation has been made (i.e.: one very low year bringing down average earnings or only set up part way through 16/17 or 17/18?).

I have the same problem where I was self employed for just 6 weeks in one year and they averaged this out over 12 months.  I appealed, was promised a call twice and then received a letter saying they had calculated it as per the governments stipulations.  I asked if I could take it further but was told no!  Very frustrating and extremely unfair!

weddingdecorator

My wife and I have received payments from HMRC, but it has only been based on the 2018/19 tax year, not an average of the three, which would have meant a higher payment. Has anybody else had this, and can it be challenged?

poppy12345

weddingdecorator said:

My wife and I have received payments from HMRC, but it has only been based on the 2018/19 tax year, not an average of the three, which would have meant a higher payment. Has anybody else had this, and can it be challenged?

If you can give some more information with the figures for those other years then i'm sure someone will advise further. Although it would have been better to have started your own thread. You've posted on the end of an extremely long thread which often causes confusion.

weddingdecorator

poppy12345 said:

weddingdecorator said:

My wife and I have received payments from HMRC, but it has only been based on the 2018/19 tax year, not an average of the three, which would have meant a higher payment. Has anybody else had this, and can it be challenged?

If you can give some more information with the figures for those other years then i'm sure someone will advise further. Although it would have been better to have started your own thread. You've posted on the end of an extremely long thread which often causes confusion.

Oops, sorry, I've just joined.  I'll try and find out how to start a new thread!  We both earned more in the two previous years, in my case £33,000 in both the previous years and £25,000 in 2018\19.  The calculation is only based on the final year, with a payment of around £5,000

Jeremy535897

weddingdecorator said:

poppy12345 said:

weddingdecorator said:

My wife and I have received payments from HMRC, but it has only been based on the 2018/19 tax year, not an average of the three, which would have meant a higher payment. Has anybody else had this, and can it be challenged?

If you can give some more information with the figures for those other years then i'm sure someone will advise further. Although it would have been better to have started your own thread. You've posted on the end of an extremely long thread which often causes confusion.

Oops, sorry, I've just joined.  I'll try and find out how to start a new thread!  We both earned more in the two previous years, in my case £33,000 in both the previous years and £25,000 in 2018\19.  The calculation is only based on the final year, with a payment of around £5,000

That sounds wrong. I suggest you post rough figures for the 3 years 2016/17 to 2018/19 for the two of you on a new thread. There's a box saying "New Thread" at the top left of the front page of the forum.

fazer169

Jeremy535897 said:

MadMattUK said:

@fazer169
I believe that you are correct in that HMRC should not average amounts of self-employed vs non-self-employed in relation to eligibility, you should be able to claim based on 18/09, so long as in 18/09 more than 50% of your income was from eligible self-employment and your average trading profit was below £50,000.

The part that I believe you are incorrect on is calculating the grant. You said "You should only be looking at all years to work out the amount of grant not the eligibility.", however that is incorrect, the grant is calculated based on eligible years, so if 17/18 was not an eligible year then it will not be included in the calculation, they would only use 18/19.

If you want anyone to check the figures then let us know the amount of eligible self-employed trading profit in the last three years, plus the total for your other sources of income in those years, broken down by year and someone can check your figures. 

No. Fazer is correct. Just dealing with the 50% test and grant calculation (so assuming profits under £50,000) for someone trading throughout 2016/17 to 2018/19, the steps are as follows:
A. Is 2018/19 trading income at least equal to 2018/19 other taxable income? If yes, go to C. If not, go to B.
B Is 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19 trading income in total at least equal to 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19 other taxable income in total? If yes, go to C. If not, no grant.
C Calculate grant based on trading income for 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19 divided by 36 times 3 times 80% capped at £7,500 (for first grant). It does not matter that for, say, 2017/18 trading income was exceeded by other taxable income.

In my case I am eligible under A.  They do not go to C.  The regulation state that you are eligible if you meet condition A, B or C.  As I meet condition A then I am eligible and no need to look at any other conditions.  I have been reassessed twice again stating that I am ineligible as I don't meet condition C.

The profits condition is met if-

(a) where the person is not subject to the loan charge, the person meets condition A, B or C
The scenario you suggest would only apply if the regulations stated A or B and C.
Still fighting including a letter of complaint to HMRC, the Chancellor and my MP,

Jeremy535897

fazer169 said:

Jeremy535897 said:

MadMattUK said:

@fazer169
I believe that you are correct in that HMRC should not average amounts of self-employed vs non-self-employed in relation to eligibility, you should be able to claim based on 18/09, so long as in 18/09 more than 50% of your income was from eligible self-employment and your average trading profit was below £50,000.

The part that I believe you are incorrect on is calculating the grant. You said "You should only be looking at all years to work out the amount of grant not the eligibility.", however that is incorrect, the grant is calculated based on eligible years, so if 17/18 was not an eligible year then it will not be included in the calculation, they would only use 18/19.

If you want anyone to check the figures then let us know the amount of eligible self-employed trading profit in the last three years, plus the total for your other sources of income in those years, broken down by year and someone can check your figures. 

No. Fazer is correct. Just dealing with the 50% test and grant calculation (so assuming profits under £50,000) for someone trading throughout 2016/17 to 2018/19, the steps are as follows:
A. Is 2018/19 trading income at least equal to 2018/19 other taxable income? If yes, go to C. If not, go to B.
B Is 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19 trading income in total at least equal to 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19 other taxable income in total? If yes, go to C. If not, no grant.
C Calculate grant based on trading income for 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19 divided by 36 times 3 times 80% capped at £7,500 (for first grant). It does not matter that for, say, 2017/18 trading income was exceeded by other taxable income.

In my case I am eligible under A.  They do not go to C.  The regulation state that you are eligible if you meet condition A, B or C.  As I meet condition A then I am eligible and no need to look at any other conditions.  I have been reassessed twice again stating that I am ineligible as I don't meet condition C.

The profits condition is met if-

(a) where the person is not subject to the loan charge, the person meets condition A, B or C
The scenario you suggest would only apply if the regulations stated A or B and C.
Still fighting including a letter of complaint to HMRC, the Chancellor and my MP,

My A B C were not intended to reflect any of the conditions A to E in the Direction. They were just steps to go through if you traded in all 3 years 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19.