Safe fund beating savings accounts?

Sailtheworld

DiggerUK said:

To claim there is some yardstick by which you can gauge the volatility in financial markets is poppycock.

You will gauge the volatility of different investments every time you invest. You know for a fact that the returns on cash in the bank will be far less volatile than the return from a FTSE100 tracker fund - having a methodology for calculating this difference helps articulate it. Nobody expects something like this to be The Truth but it's still helpful.

On Youinvest (probably everywhere) you get a standard deviation over three and five years which I find really useful for modelling and thinking about the smoothness of returns. You can do things in Excel like ask yourself with volatility x, y or z how many lifetimes in a thousand would you fail to meet your required outcome based on the assumptions made.

DiggerUK

The OP asked a simple and straightforward question. Some of the responses were way short of the polite response MSE demands, others were just derogatory bullying.

An honest answer would have been that there is nothing out there to invest in that stands a good chance of a 2% net return and that they would be far better off paying down the mortgage and benefiting from the improved cash flow of reduced payments..._

Prism

DiggerUK said:

We live on a volatile planet, in a volatile solar system, in a volatile universe........so what's new? Volatility exists, it's real, get over it, stop making it the foundation for the mumbojumbo of a priestly cast of pontificators of magic pennies.
To claim there is some yardstick by which you can gauge the volatility in financial markets is poppycock.

Seriously? You don't believe there is any way of measuring how volatile something has been, or might be going forward? Have you ever made an attempt to understand this stuff? Hardly financial smoke and mirrors, but basic statistics.

As to your gold comment, well, what can I say. Is it a cackhanded attempt at a 'non sequitur' or the most blatant attempt to take the thread off topic..._

What!? I thought it was exactly on topic since I seemingly falsely assumed that being invested in gold you would actually have some understanding of how volatile is was compared to something like cash. I have nothing against gold or any investments for that matter but some are not suitable for short term investments unless in small percentages.

kinger101

DiggerUK said:

The OP asked a simple and straightforward question. Some of the responses were way short of the polite response MSE demands, others were just derogatory bullying.

An honest answer would have been that there is nothing out there to invest in that stands a good chance of a 2% net return and that they would be far better off paying down the mortgage and benefiting from the improved cash flow of reduced payments..._

I don't feel that's a very good answer without knowing more about OP.  By their own admission, they were quite reluctant to overpay mortgage because they didn't see 1.64% interest as a great return either.  Personally, I think if they build up a more comfortable cash buffer, they'll feel more confident to take the risks necessary to improve returns over the long run.  

eskbanker

DiggerUK said:

I have nothing to withdraw. Your link was my complaint, it really is meaningless financial managementspeak, aka, mumbojumbo..._

It's your prerogative to offer an opinion about the extent of the jargon used in the explanation of FE volatility measures, but using financial management terminology to describe the concepts of, er, financial management doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

However, my two challenges remain:

1. By no measure can citing that explanatory article be construed as bullying.
2. If you feel that you can explain the relevant concepts in plainer English, then why don't you do so?

DiggerUK

You construed it as an accusation of  bullying, therefore it's your issue to explain why you concluded it as such. Go on, admit it, your shooting the messenger to avoid playing the ball.

In plain English. The concepts you refer to are gobbledygook, mumbojumbo, financial managementspeak. 

Whatever happened to the equally inexplicable Vix Index, those were the days eh, simple old fashioned nonsense..._

eskbanker

DiggerUK said:

You construed it as an accusation of  bullying, therefore it's your issue to explain why you concluded it as such.

When quoting a brief exchange of posts between OP and myself, you concluded your reply to OP with "welcome to the world of the regular usual suspects and congratulations on standing up to the bullying", so it seems clear to me.

DiggerUK said:

In plain English. The concepts you refer to are gobbledygook, mumbojumbo, financial managementspeak. 

Whatever happened to the equally inexplicable Vix Index, those were the days eh, simple old fashioned nonsense..._

OP was/is looking for ways to compare the risk of investments, and specifically asked about the volatility measure used by Trustnet.  As you object to the way in which Trustnet explain the methodology, then I'm asking you to explain how to quantify volatility in simpler terms, but if your response is simply to offer synonyms for 'nonsense' then I fail to see how that'll help OP understand anything.... 

grumiofoundation

DiggerUK said:

You construed it as an accusation of  bullying, therefore it's your issue to explain why you concluded it as such. Go on, admit it, your shooting the messenger to avoid playing the ball.

In plain English. The concepts you refer to are gobbledygook, mumbojumbo, financial managementspeak. 

Whatever happened to the equally inexplicable Vix Index, those were the days eh, simple old fashioned nonsense..._

Are you alright? You don't accuse someone of something then when they ask you to explain it say "you explain it" (well rational people don't - maybe rationality is thin on the ground at Digger mansions).

You clearly made accusations of bullying  (see quotes below).

You said 
"welcome to the world of the regular usual suspects and congratulations on standing up to the bullying..._"

eskbanker replied
"I resent the accusation of bullying and would ask that you withdraw it."

you said 

"I have nothing to withdraw. Your link was my complaint, it really is meaningless financial managementspeak, aka, mumbojumbo..._"

DiggerUK

I repeat, I made no accusation against eskbanker, in fact I pointed the finger at no one in particular.
If anybody feels the hat fits then it is their privilege to wear it..._

DiggerUK

"then I'm asking you to explain how to quantify volatility in simpler terms" .........eskbanker

I accept volatility, it exists, the universe is full of it. I just don't come up with half baked formulaic arguments  that claim it is predictable in any way shape or form in the financial world. 

Who pays attention to the Vix Index over the link you provided, they are both priestly financial incantations, nothing more.

It's a judgement call about how volatile markets will be going forward, there is no volatility crystal ball..._