Extremely High Energy Bills

tim_p

If you’ve got solar panels and an immersion heater then add a diverter (immersun, iBoost - plenty of others) and you won’t be paying to heat the water from Mar to Oct and some more in between. 

Sorry if this has been mentioned and I’ve missed it. 

Talldave

RFenton said:

Talldave said:

We spent a year in a sprawling detached, single glazed cottage, where the boiler struggled almost 24/7 in winter to keep the place warm.  Even then we only used 54,000kWh gas for the year, and electricity consumption was under 3500kWh.

Now, we're in a large 5 bed detached house (but double glazed and insulated) and look to be heading for 42,000kWh gas for the year and 4800kWh electricity (dozens of halogen bulbs replaced so that'll be less in year 2).

So, your consumption does seem high-ish.

This sort of comparison is really helpful. Do you mind me asking how many of you there are? Yes, ours was full of halogen bulbs replaced for 4w LED - they had fit 33 of them in the kitchen alone! I have wondered if we had a gas leak somewhere but a) I think I'd smell it and b) turned everything off for an hour and no movements on the meter so that rules it out.

Two adults and one young child, computers & TV on a lot, as always worked from home even before being put under house arrest! 
We only time the water for a couple of hours in the morning and a few hours in the evening.  It's a 300 litre tank and on a day when the heating's not kicking in, I think we use about 20kWh of gas on the hot water.

matelodave

I do wonder how you can get through that amount of leccy - we are all electric (including heating but with a heatpump). We are at home all day, shower every day (only two of us) and only just manage to get through 7000kwh a year. Our hot water is only on for an hour and half a day. Obviously we aren't using the washing machine/dryer/dishwasher every day but your's just sounds excessive.
Cant comment on the gas and our place ( A 3 bed bungalow 140m2) is about half the size of yours but its heated 24hrs a day to at least 17 degrees in every room and 20 in those during the times that they are in use (bathroom, bedroom, lounge, dining room, study, kitchen). We do have the advantage of programmable stats for every room. The double glazzing is over 20 years old, the roof (all 140m2) is insulated to around 300mm, none under the suspended wooden floor, so the overlay u/f heating goes down as well as up and I have doubts about what is in the walls - it looks like rockwool but was put in when the place was built in 1986 so what is using all your leccy.

Bach_Off

nadsat said:

The gas looks very high. Are you sure you've got that right? The Octopus bills should tell you the annual usage in kWh if you've been with them for a year.
We have a large 5-6 bed Victorian semi with gas central heating and hot water (16 rads and an old but solid Valliant) and a gas hob and our annual usage is 30,000 kWh gas but electricity is our main problem at 9,000 kWh, much higher than yours, but we have a lot of appliances and computers -  2 fridge freezers, and an electric oven, and dishwasher/washing machine/tumble dryer in daily use. Several LCD TVs. And one electric shower... Sometimes room electric heaters to supplement gas heating (or when it's not on). I've just switched to Octopus Tracker tariff - see my thread on this https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6143270/switching-which-of-these-companies-would-you-choose
I would be happy to get our electric down to 6,000kWh....

Thank you - it is the gas that is puzzling me the most as it just seems horrific and while I think we are as a family typical high users I honestly don't think we are that high?  I googled what figures were being thrown out as high usage and for 5 bed houses the figures are nothing like mine. I think I'm going to have to run the heating on full pelt and see what readings come out as? Then do the same with water using appliances?

Bach_Off

tim_p said:

If you’ve got solar panels and an immersion heater then add a diverter (immersun, iBoost - plenty of others) and you won’t be paying to heat the water from Mar to Oct and some more in between. 

Sorry if this has been mentioned and I’ve missed it. 

No, they haven't - I'll have a look into that - thank you.

Bach_Off

matelodave said:

I do wonder how you can get through that amount of leccy - we are all electric (including heating but with a heatpump). We are at home all day, shower every day (only two of us) and only just manage to get through 7000kwh a year. Our hot water is only on for an hour and half a day. Obviously we aren't using the washing machine/dryer/dishwasher every day but your's just sounds excessive.
Cant comment on the gas and our place ( A 3 bed bungalow 140m2) is about half the size of yours but its heated 24hrs a day to at least 17 degrees in every room and 20 in those during the times that they are in use (bathroom, bedroom, lounge, dining room, study, kitchen). We do have the advantage of programmable stats for every room. The double glazzing is over 20 years old, the roof (all 140m2) is insulated to around 300mm, none under the suspended wooden floor, so the overlay u/f heating goes down as well as up and I have doubts about what is in the walls - it looks like rockwool but was put in when the place was built in 1986 so what is using all your leccy.

I forgot to mention on the original post that when I had new radiators fitted downstairs I had all 20 radiators fitted with TRV's. The kitchen lights are on a lot (it's a dormer house and the roof protrudes quite a way over the windows making the kitchen dark) but they are LED's even though there's a lot of them.

I really don't know. There was a few 'quirks' shall we say with the wiring when I moved in. My electrician suggested switching everything off literally to see if something is draining it somewhere, which I might possibly have to do when the panels aren't generating. I spent so much trying to bring the bills down and none of it seems to be paying off.

matelodave

Is there not an isolating switch between your panels and the mains supply which would allow you check it out. TBH it might be worth getting an energy monitor (have a look at Efergy Engage - we've got one) which allows us to monitor in real time and log, view and download our electricity consumption ( in 6 sec intervals if we really wanted to) but it does show whats happening together with the time and after while we can work out what is running and when by the consumption and time. You can get a local display or just use the on-line app. Have a shufti here.https://efergy.com/products/

Talldave

RFenton said:

matelodave said:

I do wonder how you can get through that amount of leccy - we are all electric (including heating but with a heatpump). We are at home all day, shower every day (only two of us) and only just manage to get through 7000kwh a year. Our hot water is only on for an hour and half a day. Obviously we aren't using the washing machine/dryer/dishwasher every day but your's just sounds excessive.
Cant comment on the gas and our place ( A 3 bed bungalow 140m2) is about half the size of yours but its heated 24hrs a day to at least 17 degrees in every room and 20 in those during the times that they are in use (bathroom, bedroom, lounge, dining room, study, kitchen). We do have the advantage of programmable stats for every room. The double glazzing is over 20 years old, the roof (all 140m2) is insulated to around 300mm, none under the suspended wooden floor, so the overlay u/f heating goes down as well as up and I have doubts about what is in the walls - it looks like rockwool but was put in when the place was built in 1986 so what is using all your leccy.

I forgot to mention on the original post that when I had new radiators fitted downstairs I had all 20 radiators fitted with TRV's. The kitchen lights are on a lot (it's a dormer house and the roof protrudes quite a way over the windows making the kitchen dark) but they are LED's even though there's a lot of them.

I really don't know. There was a few 'quirks' shall we say with the wiring when I moved in. My electrician suggested switching everything off literally to see if something is draining it somewhere, which I might possibly have to do when the panels aren't generating. I spent so much trying to bring the bills down and none of it seems to be paying off.

Have you got a separate thermostat controlling the overall "call for heat" for the radiators?  And is that thermostat battling against a TRV - ie: is the boiler being run by a thermostat but the TRVs are set low so the thermostat is never satisfied, so the boiler runs needlessly for hours on end?   [Problem here is that you need to test that in February!].

I read meters weekly and so know everything there is to know about consumption and its quirks.  Start doing that now and you should at least see how much you're using on hot water, assuming the above mentioned heating issue isn't occurring.

Get a Geo Minim energy monitor for the electricity and start working out what uses what - by turning everything off.

Bach_Off

matelodave said:

Is there not an isolating switch between your panels and the mains supply which would allow you check it out. TBH it might be worth getting an energy monitor (have a look at Efergy Engage - we've got one) which allows us to monitor in real time and log, view and download our electricity consumption ( in 6 sec intervals if we really wanted to) but it does show whats happening together with the time and after while we can work out what is running and when by the consumption and time. You can get a local display or just use the on-line app. Have a shufti here.https://efergy.com/products/

Thank you - that is a really a good suggestion. I am on a waiting list for a smart meter (they declined twice to fit one as my gas meter is sunk into the ground) but this might actually be just the ticket. My only reservation is it's reliance on WiFi as our signal isn't great, even with a TP Link adapter but they are reasonably priced and if it works might throw out some clues as to what's going on?

Edit: Yes, now I come to think of it, there is an isolating switch in the loft (never had need to use it).

Bach_Off

Talldave said:

RFenton said:

matelodave said:

I do wonder how you can get through that amount of leccy - we are all electric (including heating but with a heatpump). We are at home all day, shower every day (only two of us) and only just manage to get through 7000kwh a year. Our hot water is only on for an hour and half a day. Obviously we aren't using the washing machine/dryer/dishwasher every day but your's just sounds excessive.
Cant comment on the gas and our place ( A 3 bed bungalow 140m2) is about half the size of yours but its heated 24hrs a day to at least 17 degrees in every room and 20 in those during the times that they are in use (bathroom, bedroom, lounge, dining room, study, kitchen). We do have the advantage of programmable stats for every room. The double glazzing is over 20 years old, the roof (all 140m2) is insulated to around 300mm, none under the suspended wooden floor, so the overlay u/f heating goes down as well as up and I have doubts about what is in the walls - it looks like rockwool but was put in when the place was built in 1986 so what is using all your leccy.

I forgot to mention on the original post that when I had new radiators fitted downstairs I had all 20 radiators fitted with TRV's. The kitchen lights are on a lot (it's a dormer house and the roof protrudes quite a way over the windows making the kitchen dark) but they are LED's even though there's a lot of them.

I really don't know. There was a few 'quirks' shall we say with the wiring when I moved in. My electrician suggested switching everything off literally to see if something is draining it somewhere, which I might possibly have to do when the panels aren't generating. I spent so much trying to bring the bills down and none of it seems to be paying off.

Have you got a separate thermostat controlling the overall "call for heat" for the radiators?  And is that thermostat battling against a TRV - ie: is the boiler being run by a thermostat but the TRVs are set low so the thermostat is never satisfied, so the boiler runs needlessly for hours on end?   [Problem here is that you need to test that in February!].

I read meters weekly and so know everything there is to know about consumption and its quirks.  Start doing that now and you should at least see how much you're using on hot water, assuming the above mentioned heating issue isn't occurring.

Get a Geo Minim energy monitor for the electricity and start working out what uses what - by turning everything off.

Yes, there are three separate thermostats, one for the kitchen, upstairs and downstairs. The two radiators in the hallway where the thermostat is don't have TRV's actually - think that was to avoid the issue you have highlighted?

The energy monitor is the way forward I think - it'll give some answers somewhere along the line.