Lodgers not paying

Comms69

Hasbeen said:

Comms69 said:

Miranda25 said:

Hasbeen said:

Have read through the thread and well WOW.

 The op appears to have no understanding of current UK legislation.

Perhaps things are different elsewhere?

And is cheating HMRC. Not registered. Not protecting deposits. Having a HMO. No gas/electrical certificates. Fire regs, the list just keeps growing?

At this stage I would get more legal advice.
But
This is going to cost big time, no rent, Bill's, utility, council tax etc mounting up?

So
I would chance as suggested turn up at door with suitcase smile and say I am back, see what reaction is.

 Even if it means sleeping on sofa.

See if Ops lodgers/tenents know even less of the law than the Op?

OP if allowed back in, perhaps a few coughs ?

Hasbeen, yes things are different in some countries. 
What I cannot understand in this situation in the UK why OP should be careful to enter her own property? It is OP's property and why she should ask permission to enter there? 
Another question: who can guarantee that even if OP negotiates with tenants/lodgers to leave the house, they still will not report her to authorities after that? In this case it would be double loss?

Well thats the point. It may well not be the OPs property. 

Lets say you buy shares in microsoft, doesnt mean you can walk through HQ...

Yaroslava said:

I bought a property a few years ago, I’ve never done it to make money, it’s just been a enough to cover the bills and mortgage, and I’ve constantly been putting money in to the house to renovate it from the very dated state it was in, so there hasn't been a profit. 

I mean, By virtue of granting a lease, the OP may retain proprietary ownership, but with none of the rights of a residential owner.

Miranda25

Hasbeen said:

Miranda25 said:

Hasbeen said:

Have read through the thread and well WOW.

 The op appears to have no understanding of current UK legislation.

Perhaps things are different elsewhere?

And is cheating HMRC. Not registered. Not protecting deposits. Having a HMO. No gas/electrical certificates. Fire regs, the list just keeps growing?

At this stage I would get more legal advice.
But
This is going to cost big time, no rent, Bill's, utility, council tax etc mounting up?

So
I would chance as suggested turn up at door with suitcase smile and say I am back, see what reaction is.

 Even if it means sleeping on sofa.

See if Ops lodgers/tenents know even less of the law than the Op?

OP if allowed back in, perhaps a few coughs ?

Hasbeen, yes things are different in some countries. 
What I cannot understand in this situation in the UK why OP should be careful to enter her own property? It is OP's property and why she should ask permission to enter there? 
Another question: who can guarantee that even if OP negotiates with tenants/lodgers to leave the house, they still will not report her to authorities after that? In this case it would be double loss?

As said this is the UK and laws are different here.

When you come here you have to have / learn at least a basic understanding of various laws, that will affect you. If you are involved in certain situations.

One is the tenants right to Quiet Enjoyment, which is enforceable by law.

Quote: 

"Basically, it means that the tenant must be able to live in (or ‘enjoy’ to use the old-fashioned meaning of the word) the property in peace without any disturbance from the landlord or anyone acting on his behalf.

As you can see it goes with exclusive occupation. If you have exclusive occupation (at a rent for a term per Street v. Mountford) then you have a tenancy, which brings with it the covenant of quiet enjoyment.

So the landlord will breach the covenant of quiet enjoyment if he enters the property without the tenants’ permission, or if he sends his workmen in without asking first. He will also breach it if he does anything else which prevents the tenants from ‘enjoying’ their use of the property. For example by failing to carry out essential repairs, or by cutting off the supply of services.

In fact breach of the covenant of quiet enjoyment generally implies harassment and under the Protection from Eviction Act 1977, this is a criminal offence."

The tenants can if the landlord even steps foot in the garden call the police, action against the Landlord.

It might be double loss as you say, but at the moment all loss to the so called "landlord" 

And as you say if Landlord negotiates "pays" tenants to leave, at least the Landlord can start to pay off any utility and council tax bills etc? that have been mounting up to date.


EDIT: Just to say, do not think OP will be back and suspect will do their own thing that they would do abroad. But doing that may perhaps be more serious and problematic than they envisage as the Op has no understanding of any legislation re landlords/renting in the UK. 

Thank you Hasbeen.
It is OK to provide a quite enjoyment for tenants when tenants follow all the rules and first of all paying rent on time even if it was agreed not on paper. This is a different situation and probably their enjoyment should be stopped immediately? Or UK law is so soft that tenants can do anything they like and "landlord" still have to ask permission to enter his/her own property?

Hasbeen

Miranda25 said:

Hasbeen said:

Miranda25 said:

Hasbeen said:

Have read through the thread and well WOW.

 The op appears to have no understanding of current UK legislation.

Perhaps things are different elsewhere?

And is cheating HMRC. Not registered. Not protecting deposits. Having a HMO. No gas/electrical certificates. Fire regs, the list just keeps growing?

At this stage I would get more legal advice.
But
This is going to cost big time, no rent, Bill's, utility, council tax etc mounting up?

So
I would chance as suggested turn up at door with suitcase smile and say I am back, see what reaction is.

 Even if it means sleeping on sofa.

See if Ops lodgers/tenents know even less of the law than the Op?

OP if allowed back in, perhaps a few coughs ?

Hasbeen, yes things are different in some countries. 
What I cannot understand in this situation in the UK why OP should be careful to enter her own property? It is OP's property and why she should ask permission to enter there? 
Another question: who can guarantee that even if OP negotiates with tenants/lodgers to leave the house, they still will not report her to authorities after that? In this case it would be double loss?

As said this is the UK and laws are different here.

When you come here you have to have / learn at least a basic understanding of various laws, that will affect you. If you are involved in certain situations.

One is the tenants right to Quiet Enjoyment, which is enforceable by law.

Quote: 

"Basically, it means that the tenant must be able to live in (or ‘enjoy’ to use the old-fashioned meaning of the word) the property in peace without any disturbance from the landlord or anyone acting on his behalf.

As you can see it goes with exclusive occupation. If you have exclusive occupation (at a rent for a term per Street v. Mountford) then you have a tenancy, which brings with it the covenant of quiet enjoyment.

So the landlord will breach the covenant of quiet enjoyment if he enters the property without the tenants’ permission, or if he sends his workmen in without asking first. He will also breach it if he does anything else which prevents the tenants from ‘enjoying’ their use of the property. For example by failing to carry out essential repairs, or by cutting off the supply of services.

In fact breach of the covenant of quiet enjoyment generally implies harassment and under the Protection from Eviction Act 1977, this is a criminal offence."

The tenants can if the landlord even steps foot in the garden call the police, action against the Landlord.

It might be double loss as you say, but at the moment all loss to the so called "landlord" 

And as you say if Landlord negotiates "pays" tenants to leave, at least the Landlord can start to pay off any utility and council tax bills etc? that have been mounting up to date.


EDIT: Just to say, do not think OP will be back and suspect will do their own thing that they would do abroad. But doing that may perhaps be more serious and problematic than they envisage as the Op has no understanding of any legislation re landlords/renting in the UK. 

Thank you Hasbeen.
It is OK to provide a quite enjoyment for tenants when tenants follow all the rules and first of all paying rent on time even if it was agreed not on paper. This is a different situation and probably their enjoyment should be stopped immediately? Or UK law is so soft that tenants can do anything they like and "landlord" still have to ask permission to enter his/her own property?

Yes.

It appears that all tenants, good or really bad have more rights than landords?

Comms69

Miranda25 said:

Hasbeen said:

Miranda25 said:

Hasbeen said:

Have read through the thread and well WOW.

 The op appears to have no understanding of current UK legislation.

Perhaps things are different elsewhere?

And is cheating HMRC. Not registered. Not protecting deposits. Having a HMO. No gas/electrical certificates. Fire regs, the list just keeps growing?

At this stage I would get more legal advice.
But
This is going to cost big time, no rent, Bill's, utility, council tax etc mounting up?

So
I would chance as suggested turn up at door with suitcase smile and say I am back, see what reaction is.

 Even if it means sleeping on sofa.

See if Ops lodgers/tenents know even less of the law than the Op?

OP if allowed back in, perhaps a few coughs ?

Hasbeen, yes things are different in some countries. 
What I cannot understand in this situation in the UK why OP should be careful to enter her own property? It is OP's property and why she should ask permission to enter there? 
Another question: who can guarantee that even if OP negotiates with tenants/lodgers to leave the house, they still will not report her to authorities after that? In this case it would be double loss?

As said this is the UK and laws are different here.

When you come here you have to have / learn at least a basic understanding of various laws, that will affect you. If you are involved in certain situations.

One is the tenants right to Quiet Enjoyment, which is enforceable by law.

Quote: 

"Basically, it means that the tenant must be able to live in (or ‘enjoy’ to use the old-fashioned meaning of the word) the property in peace without any disturbance from the landlord or anyone acting on his behalf.

As you can see it goes with exclusive occupation. If you have exclusive occupation (at a rent for a term per Street v. Mountford) then you have a tenancy, which brings with it the covenant of quiet enjoyment.

So the landlord will breach the covenant of quiet enjoyment if he enters the property without the tenants’ permission, or if he sends his workmen in without asking first. He will also breach it if he does anything else which prevents the tenants from ‘enjoying’ their use of the property. For example by failing to carry out essential repairs, or by cutting off the supply of services.

In fact breach of the covenant of quiet enjoyment generally implies harassment and under the Protection from Eviction Act 1977, this is a criminal offence."

The tenants can if the landlord even steps foot in the garden call the police, action against the Landlord.

It might be double loss as you say, but at the moment all loss to the so called "landlord" 

And as you say if Landlord negotiates "pays" tenants to leave, at least the Landlord can start to pay off any utility and council tax bills etc? that have been mounting up to date.


EDIT: Just to say, do not think OP will be back and suspect will do their own thing that they would do abroad. But doing that may perhaps be more serious and problematic than they envisage as the Op has no understanding of any legislation re landlords/renting in the UK. 

Thank you Hasbeen.
It is OK to provide a quite enjoyment for tenants when tenants follow all the rules and first of all paying rent on time even if it was agreed not on paper. This is a different situation and probably their enjoyment should be stopped immediately? Or UK law is so soft that tenants can do anything they like and "landlord" still have to ask permission to enter his/her own property?

Yes the UK law is 'so soft' - that has been the position (depending on how you look at it) for centuries, so no current landlord can really complain. 

Freecall

Miranda25 said:

Or UK law is so soft that tenants can do anything they like and "landlord" still have to ask permission to enter his/her own property?

Yes, that is correct.  It is also the same in the vast majority of the developed world.

Someone has to decide if tenants have done anything wrong before you can enter without their permission. 

In the UK, that someone is called a Judge.

[Deleted User]

The landlord has foregone some of the laws protections due to their ineptitude. They can legally gain possession but there is just many more steps and probable vast expense to do so legally. Even in cases where landlords do things right, there can be financial loss where rents are not paid. I have more sympathy for landlords in that position as it can be a long winded process through courts.

craig88b

Just move back in. Seems the tenants were paying a specific amount of rent based on the fact you’d be living there in the spare room in the near future, most likely indefinitely.

 If I rented out my spare room and went on a holiday for a few weeks and came back to find the lodger had taken over my room and the whole apartment illegally then there would be trouble. 

Hasbeen

Have you actually read all the thread?