Personal Assets Trust vs Trojan O Acc

Linton

A_T said:

I'm not impressed with these funds - especially CGT and it's eccentric choice of equities. They are a big bet on TIPs which are at negative yields and there's no guarantee they will protect against inflation. I'd do my own thing with a global equity index tracker and a global government bond fund - in what proportion is dependent on how much risk you want to take.

Strange, Morningstar fails to mention CGT's large holdings in TIPs.

Aminatidi

Linton said:

A_T said:

I'm not impressed with these funds - especially CGT and it's eccentric choice of equities. They are a big bet on TIPs which are at negative yields and there's no guarantee they will protect against inflation. I'd do my own thing with a global equity index tracker and a global government bond fund - in what proportion is dependent on how much risk you want to take.

Strange, Morningstar fails to mention CGT's large holdings in TIPs.

They (CG Asset Management) mention TIPs quite heavily in their monthly and quarterly reports.

MarkCarnage

PNL, Ruffer and CGT all hold about a third of assets in IL Sovereign Bonds. CGT is a little less, but has more in conventional gilts. Add in gold, and the first two have over 40% in inflation hedge assets essentially. I would be inclined to prefer IL over conventional right now. Central banks seem hell bent on preventing deflation at all costs and deflation is the only scenario that conventionals look remotely attractive in. 
Not sure about the comment above about TIPS not protecting against inflation. Yes, they are at negative real yields, and yes they hedge US not UK inflation, but the negative real yield on UK ILG is a lot higher than TIPS. I also wouldn't bet on these negative real yields  not becoming more negative.....but if inflation rises you do get some protection there. 
Ruffer benefited in Q1 from a derivative holding which I think was CDS based, and they seem to have sold that down now. 
Buying a mix of passive global equity tracker and passive conventional sovereign debt fund as suggested doesn't attract me right now. 

Sally57

Sue58 said:

Linton said:

Although most platforms seem to offer Trojan O, AJ Bell has Trojan X which is the same fund but with an OCF of 0.87%.  Though personally I think that there are far more important things to worry about when choosing funds than a fraction of a % in OCF.  For the Trojan funds over 10 years Trojan X returned 75.3% against Trojan O's 74.7%.  Precisely which days of the week you bought and sold could well be more significant.

I noticed in your WP portfolio that you prefer the Trojan OEIC fund to PNL, however with Capital Gearing you prefer the Trust rather than the CG Absolute Return fund - any particular reason for this?.  

I can't answer this for Linton, however in my opinion PNL & Trojan O/X are very similar so you could hold either its just personal preference. With CGT and CGAR, whilst having similar holdings the allocations seem to be quite different so I would go with CGT in this instance but I must admit I don't like Absolute Return funds in general.

Sue58

Sally57 said:

Sue58 said:

Linton said:

Although most platforms seem to offer Trojan O, AJ Bell has Trojan X which is the same fund but with an OCF of 0.87%.  Though personally I think that there are far more important things to worry about when choosing funds than a fraction of a % in OCF.  For the Trojan funds over 10 years Trojan X returned 75.3% against Trojan O's 74.7%.  Precisely which days of the week you bought and sold could well be more significant.

I noticed in your WP portfolio that you prefer the Trojan OEIC fund to PNL, however with Capital Gearing you prefer the Trust rather than the CG Absolute Return fund - any particular reason for this?.  

I can't answer this for Linton, however in my opinion PNL & Trojan O/X are very similar so you could hold either its just personal preference. With CGT and CGAR, whilst having similar holdings the allocations seem to be quite different so I would go with CGT in this instance but I must admit I don't like Absolute Return funds in general.

Why don’t you like CGAR apart from not liking Absolute Return funds in general? It’s performed practically as well as CGT since it’s inception. There is no discount/premium to consider, no stamp duty and possibly less volatility.

Prism

Of all of these types of trusts and funds I like Personal Assets Trust the best as I find its holdings a lot simpler to understand than some of the others. 45% in well known global 'safe' equities, 10% gold, 31% IL Bonds and 15% cash. However when I compare the last few months performance vs my own balanced portfolio, rather than my full equities SIPP, I find that I am happier with my own results. The maximum drawdown of PAT was 12% which was pretty much what I got. 2% of that can be explained by a decreasing premium, but then I have some trusts too that swung to a greater discount. PAT has recently recovered to its peak, but my portfolio did that over 2 weeks ago. I would have thought with all the fears of inflation and PATs 40% allocation to inflation protection assets it would have done a little better - still, if inflation does hit us hard it will I am sure rush ahead of my portfolio but there could be a long wait for that.

I can see me using one of these funds at some point in the future when I want a fire and forget wealth preservation fund. Still undecided on trust vs fund. I think a fund is less volatile during a crash and is kind of what I would want. For the moment though I will continue to do it myself.

Thrugelmir

PAT published their annual results today. Interesting read. 

bowlhead99

Thrugelmir said:

PAT published their annual results today. Interesting read. 

Do you mean CGT did that? 

They have the same secretary / administrator but have a 5 April year end ; PAT's (PNL's) year end is 30 April, so too soon to have annual results out.

https://investegate.co.uk/capital-gearing-tst--cgt-/prn/final-results/20200527070200P7041/

One thing I like about investment trusts vs OEICs is that the investor reporting /investment commentary provided in the RNSs and full annual /interim financial statements is often better / more interesting.  A hangover perhaps from  the old days where OEICs  and UTs were distributed to retail shareholders through intermediaries (investment platforms, investment advisers/salesforce) who earned money or commissions for promoting them, while investment trusts listed on the stock exchange had to comply with all the listing rules and also make their own case directly to any prospective investors (who would be competent to evaluate their financial statements) about what they were doing, how and why. 

I used to like the Quarterlies from Personal Assets which always had a bit of personal insight from the Board on some theme or other in addition to a bit of market or performance commentary.  It is a bit of a shame that  going forward they will now be done by Troy as part of a general update of the environment for PATplc and Trojan.

Thrugelmir

You're correct of course. Was looking at PAT as well this morning......

Sue58

Prism said:

Of all of these types of trusts and funds I like Personal Assets Trust the best as I find its holdings a lot simpler to understand than some of the others. 45% in well known global 'safe' equities, 10% gold, 31% IL Bonds and 15% cash. However when I compare the last few months performance vs my own balanced portfolio, rather than my full equities SIPP, I find that I am happier with my own results. The maximum drawdown of PAT was 12% which was pretty much what I got. 2% of that can be explained by a decreasing premium, but then I have some trusts too that swung to a greater discount. PAT has recently recovered to its peak, but my portfolio did that over 2 weeks ago. I would have thought with all the fears of inflation and PATs 40% allocation to inflation protection assets it would have done a little better - still, if inflation does hit us hard it will I am sure rush ahead of my portfolio but there could be a long wait for that.

I can see me using one of these funds at some point in the future when I want a fire and forget wealth preservation fund. Still undecided on trust vs fund. I think a fund is less volatile during a crash and is kind of what I would want. For the moment though I will continue to do it myself.

Would you mind me asking which funds you have ini your own balanced portfolio?