APCOA - POFA 2012 - PCN issued late

nightowl2020

Coupon-mad - I finally did find that response. Thanks. Using the Advanced Search function took a few tries to narrow it down.
I've adapted Edna Basher's appeal as follows. Changes in bold. Is this OK?

Dear Sir,
Parking Charge Notice Ref. 123456: Vehicle Registration XXXX XXX

We are in receipt of the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice ("PCN") dated X May 2020 and issued by APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd to our company [ABC Ltd] ("[ABC]") in respect of an unpaid parking charge allegedly incurred at X Station Car Park on X January 2020.

We confirm that ABC is the vehicle's owner and keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definitions under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("POFA") and we write to dispute this PCN.

The PCN failed to comply with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA and consequently APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd has forfeited any right to claim unpaid parking charges from [ABC] as the vehicle's owner and keeper. Specifically your PCN was issued over 100 days late.

Within 28 days please provide us with written confirmation of APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd's acceptance that it cannot and does not hold [ABC] liable for this parking charge and that this is now purely a matter between APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd and the driver.

Thank you for your cooperation and we look forward to receiving this confirmation.

Yours faithfully etc.

KeithP

We confirm that ABC is the vehicle's owner and keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definitions under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("POFA") and we write to dispute this PCN.

Why have you added the word owner in there?

That's not wise when one is talking about byelaw controlled land.
And owner is not defined is Sch4 of POFA2012.

nightowl2020

Edna Basher letter had the words "Hirer and keeper" and my vehicle is not hired or leased, it is owned outright by my employer. So I'll take out the word owner and just leave it as "keeper". Thanks.
The only other thing was that I added the specific thing in Sch4 POFA2012 that I think they failed (over 100 days late). I figured I needed something specific since I don't have "overstay" or "signage" arguments and they have sent me pictures of the car and reg plate entering and leaving.

Coupon-mad

Yes that is fine but remove owner.  Just 'keeper'. 

And ignore any reply that asks for the driver's name.  The company will win (either now or at POPLA stage, if APCOA bother!) based on the 100 days it took to send that PCN.

nightowl2020

Finally got a response. Carbon copy rejection on all counts. They are also saying POFA 2012 does not apply. Text below. I assume the next step is to appeal to POPLA with the same reasoning? Are they not going to just say that POFA does not apply and reject my appeal? They've also given me another 14 days to pay the discounted rate. When I sent the letter as above, I was careful not to name the driver and responded as the company but I had to give a name and contact details on the website for the appeal in order for the response to come back to me and not go through the roundabout method of someone else at the company. That seemed to be the general advice on the forums so the correspondence comes directly to me. In the wording below, they seem to say "your vehicle" and the appeal rejection letter is addressed to me this time instead of "Company Secretary" as it was last time. Bit worried I screwed up by giving my name as the company contact. Also, does the BPA code of practice really allow them to issue ANPR tickets over 100 days after the fact? Was kinda hoping POFA 2012 applied and the 14 day time limit would get them to cancel this.

"At the time the ANPR cameras observed your vehicle they noted that it was parked without a valid payment, therefore it was parked in breach of the terms and conditions of the car park and a Parking Charge Notice was issued correctly. It is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure that they have a valid payment for the entire time that they are parked in the car park and that this payment is made straight away when parking. We have performed a search of your registration number for the date in question and no payment has been found.

As your vehicle was parked in contravention of the terms and conditions of the site we are satisfied that the notice was correctly issued in accordance with the BPA code of practice, and therefore not able to waiver the charge on this occasion.

Please be aware, this notice is not issued under POFA 2012, and therefore the time scale guidelines outlined by them are not relevant to this appeal. This notice is issued in line with BPA guidelines which have been adhered to in this instance."

nosferatu1001

No, you misundertand

They have admitted they cannot hold the keeper liable, as they are not using POFA2012 - or attempting to - to hold them liable
This is the worlds easiest win at POPLA. Golden ticket. 

Umkomaas

They are also saying POFA 2012 does not apply. Text below. I assume the next step is to appeal to POPLA with the same reasoning? Are they not going to just say that POFA does not apply and reject my appeal?

The perfect reply for you. If they don't know who the driver is and you don't tell them, they have no justification in pursuing the keeper any further than the Notice to Keeper, which, without meeting PoFA requirements, can only politely ask the keeper to identify the driver. 

If they force you to submit a POPLA appeal, I'd be making a parallel complaint to the DVLA and the BPA, as without the driver details they have no one to pursue and no right to do so!

BrownTrout

Appeal to POPLA no keeper liability. 
Apcoa always always always withdraw and never challenge these 

Coupon-mad

How do people not understand how easy non-POFA ones are? amaxes me how almost all new posters miss the point here.  So often posters say something like this OP:

They are also saying POFA 2012 does not apply. I assume the next step is to appeal to POPLA... Are they not going to just say that POFA does not apply and reject my appeal? 

What the OP should be saying is:

''Yay!  You were right, they've admitted they don't use the POFA, so POPLA will be easy for the company keeper!''

As long as the company also covers clearly that the driver was NOT on company business or acting in any capacity on behalf of the keeper that could invoke a twisted interpretation of the law of agency, because (explain that the driver wasn't working ...it was personal use of the vehicle...etc).

D_P_Dance

If they do withdraw considering causing them a bit more grief, send them a LBA

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6144741/apcoa-pofa-2012-pcn-issued-late#latest
I sent one to APCOA  and got a two page reply from their legal saying I had no case.