APCOA - POFA 2012 - PCN issued late

nightowl2020

I've just received 4 NTKs from my company from APCOA. They are ANPR postal tickets for parking in a newish railway car park, no windscreen notices. However, they are for offences in the first half of January. Signage is good, I just forgot to pay a few times, didn't get a ticket, and figured I would pay the fine and be more mindful when they started enforcing. There maybe more coming.
I don't mind paying these 4 as it is my own stupidity that got me here, but I don't think it is entirely fair to wait 4 months to enforce and I'm worried about more that may arrive shortly. If I pay these then appeal others, then it looks a bit suspicious. POFA 2012 Paragraph 9 says these types of tickets need to be issued in 14 days and the NTKs were issued anywhere from 115ish to 130ish days after the offence.
There maybe some mitigation on their end as the car was in the process of being transferred from a lease company to my employer at the time, but I don't think that matters. Am I correct in assuming they have no Keeper Liability that they can enforce and POPLA will side with me? Should I just appeal online using your template and try to get a POPLA number? POPLA is mentioned at the bottom of the APCOA letter, but I know they are currently not processing any appeals, so not sure if it might be better to write to BPA directly? Due to lockdown and postage delays, I only have a couple more days to pay to take advantage of the bribe to pay early.
I've also seen somewhere on here that APCOA never go to court, so even if I lose at POPLA, then is there nothing to fear from APCOA? I could potentially be looking at into 4 figures if I have to pay out full whack on everything that I expect is coming. Do you still think they will ignore that?
Thanks for any help in advance.


 

Umkomaas

Just appeal each one separately using the blue text template in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, first post. Then if APCOA reject and send you a POPLA code for each appeal you go to the next stage and appeal to POPLA, using the fact that the late delivery of the NtK means they are unable to hold the keeper liable. There are plenty of APCOA examples floating around the forum. 

I could potentially be looking at into 4 figures if I have to pay out full whack on everything that I expect is coming. Do you still think they will ignore that?

Sorry, the crystal ball that Martin Lewis has provided has started to spark and flash and is now proving unreliable and rather dangerous. 

But, whichever operator is involved, the greater the number of tickets, the more attractive it might be to issue proceedings. Head this off as early as possible. 

Redx

If it is railway property (network rail) then POFA does not apply and they won't be pursuing anyone under POFA

Apcoa have never complied with POFA to my knowledge , even when it applies , so it's not about lateness , it's about validity

So the 6 month rule to PCN invoices applies , especially if they are penalty notices due to bylaws

In any case , appeal each one separately , as keeper using the blue text template unless it's a hire vehicle or lease vehicle

Then read recent Apcoa popla appeals and adapt to suit , letting you win each one at Popla , same as everyone else

No blabbing about who was driving at all

You will have to go through the process to see each one off

Fruitcake

I'm surprised you say CRAPCOA signage was good as the opposite has been my experience.
The PPC don't have to rely on the PoFA 2012, but the keeper cannot be held liable if PoFA isn't used or the NTKs arrived too late for keeper liability to apply.

Forget contacting the BPA. Appeal each PCN separately as keeper advised by Umkomaas. Add a one liner that the NTKs were given too late for keeper liability to apply so they should contact the driver, who will not be named. This assumes you received NTKs and not reminders.

If it is rejected then construct draft PoPLA appeals as per the third post of the NEWBIES and post it here for checking before you submit it. Get pics of the site and signage to assist with this.

If the car park is a railway asset then railway byelaws apply which means PoFA doesn't apply but the keeper can't be held liable, the driver can, and the owner may. For this reason you need to determine who owned the vehicle, who was the registered keeper, and who was the day to day keeper at the time just in case the PPC try to extract money from another entity who will then extract it from you.

Chiggings

I was in the same situation as you where by I had 3 tickets come through within a few weeks even though I had a permit lol. As long as you don’t tell them who was driving and the land is covered by railway bylaws then they can’t do anything under POFA to chase the keeper. I had all 3 tickets cancelled. 

Coupon-mad

I've just received 4 NTKs from my company from APCOA. 

You are not the keeper then?  You are the hirer/lessee.  Paragraph 9 of the POFA doesn't apply. This will be EASY to win by appealing as hirer/lessee (NOT DRIVER).   Like every single APCOA thread, but in your case using Edna Basher's appeal wording.  

Are the NTKS addressed to the COMPANY?   Not you?

Have the COMPANY replied and named you as the hirer/lessee?

No?

Or have they just passed them to you?  If so then you obviously appeal IN THE NAME OF THE COMPANY...like in a thread last week...

Redx

as above, use the edna basher advice if its a company vehicle as coupon mad is saying above, so not the blue text template because its not your vehicle

D_P_Dance

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation. 

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/of these Private Parking Companies.

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

nightowl2020

Thanks for your help. I am the end user. My employer is the owner and registered keeper. It was a lease car, but have since found out that my employer took over ownership prior to these offences. Letter was to my employer and they have just passed it on. Have been advised by my employer that I can't remove them from the process, which is what Edna Basher's letters seem to try to do with company lease cars. So I guess I just delete those bits out of Edna's letters and respond as my employer with no names mentioned and then let my employer keep forwarding things to me?

D_P_Dance

1. They are not offences, hay are invoices for alleged breaches of contracts. 

Coupon-mad

You must reply as the company, like I told someone else last week.    You only had to find my reply on my profile from last week's replies (among hundreds, but it was only last week!).

Edna Basher gives THREE versions of appeal and one is from 'ABC company'. That is the one.