Bounce back loan for multiple business help

Grumpy_chap

Except, he is running both companies as sole trader, not two Ltd Companies.  I agree with Jeremy that will make proving two separate businesses difficult.
How did the OP submit his past tax returns?  Did he simply submit one self-employment sheet covering everything? 
If so, then that would certainly suggest only one loan is possible.  Also, the turnover of that one self-employment declared would have already been taken into account through the first loan applied for.
If the OP submitted two self-employment sheets with his tax return, he may have more scope to prove two businesses and the first application may not have considered the turnover from the second tax return sheet.

Bobsburgeman

Grumpy_chap said:

Except, he is running both companies as sole trader, not two Ltd Companies.  I agree with Jeremy that will make proving two separate businesses difficult.
How did the OP submit his past tax returns?  Did he simply submit one self-employment sheet covering everything? 
If so, then that would certainly suggest only one loan is possible.  Also, the turnover of that one self-employment declared would have already been taken into account through the first loan applied for.
If the OP submitted two self-employment sheets with his tax return, he may have more scope to prove two businesses and the first application may not have considered the turnover from the second tax return sheet.

Hi, So on my tax return, in the box that asked how many businesses I have I selected two, & then I entered my incomes in on two separate sheets, individual turn over and profits, etc, I did not combine the two together.

Jeremy535897

davetheraver said:

So scenario D applies to this gentleman's query, but as they are not in the same markets..

Note: If Company A and Company B are not operating in the same (or adjacent) markets, each may apply for a Bounce Back Loan. 

He can apply for 2 loans

No, because they are not companies, but two sole trades. It is too late to incorporate one or both as they won't have been trading by 1 March.

Grumpy_chap

Bobsburgeman said:

Hi, So on my tax return, in the box that asked how many businesses I have I selected two, & then I entered my incomes in on two separate sheets, individual turn over and profits, etc, I did not combine the two together.

How was this treated for SEISS?

I can see why you would say two businesses and also how you might say that is established through your tax return submission as evidence, and it would then be 'scenario D' in the Santander illustration.

The simplest thing would have been one application to cover the full turnover of your combined sole trader business.  From your earlier posts, it looks like that would now be only in hindsight and therefore no longer possible.

Unlike the two Ltd Co scenario, you are still only one sole trader and only exist as one legal entity.  Jeremy's take on this carries a lot of weight as an argument.

How big are your two businesses?  What value of loan would you seek for the second business?  How desperately do you need the funds, or is it taking the opportunity 'just in case'?

Really, there is only one @Bobsburgeman so if you wanted to go for the second loan, I think this is so marginal that you would need to take professional advice first.  Whatever you do, keep a record of your decision making process and rationale so that, hypothetically, if you ended up in front of a judge, you would be happy to defend yourself based upon your thought process.

Jeremy535897

The simplest thing would have been one application to cover the full turnover of your combined sole trader business.  From your earlier posts, it looks like that would now be only in hindsight and therefore no longer possible.

Absolutely. Even if the tax return shows two separate businesses, the correct approach would have been to get one loan based on the joint turnover. The scenario D addresses the case of two separate legal entities owned by one  person or the same persons..

Grumpy_chap

Agreed.

It's so marginal to now go for the second loan that, unless you have such a desperate need for the finance that warrants legal advice upfront, this is a ship that has already sailed.

davetheraver

As a LTD Company who uses a registered service office address to hide your home/trading address on companies house, could this cause issues when applying?

All my mail from the bank goes to my home address, but this address is not on companies house.

Just wondering as Ive seen a few people say they had to submit proof of address etc

Jeremy535897

Presumably you also used that address for your address as director or secretary?

davetheraver

Jeremy535897 said:

Presumably you also used that address for your address as director or secretary?

My home address? I applied through my bank so I didn’t need to enter that. But I assume when I set up my bank account as a LTD company they would have asked, hence why the mail come to my home address.
On my feeder account application, I put the director along with home address down, it detected the business register office address automatically when I entered the company number.

Bobsburgeman

Grumpy_chap said:

Bobsburgeman said:

Hi, So on my tax return, in the box that asked how many businesses I have I selected two, & then I entered my incomes in on two separate sheets, individual turn over and profits, etc, I did not combine the two together.

How was this treated for SEISS?

I can see why you would say two businesses and also how you might say that is established through your tax return submission as evidence, and it would then be 'scenario D' in the Santander illustration.

The simplest thing would have been one application to cover the full turnover of your combined sole trader business.  From your earlier posts, it looks like that would now be only in hindsight and therefore no longer possible.

Unlike the two Ltd Co scenario, you are still only one sole trader and only exist as one legal entity.  Jeremy's take on this carries a lot of weight as an argument.

How big are your two businesses?  What value of loan would you seek for the second business?  How desperately do you need the funds, or is it taking the opportunity 'just in case'?

Really, there is only one @Bobsburgeman so if you wanted to go for the second loan, I think this is so marginal that you would need to take professional advice first.  Whatever you do, keep a record of your decision making process and rationale so that, hypothetically, if you ended up in front of a judge, you would be happy to defend yourself based upon your thought process.

Thank you for your detailed response.
Your hypothetical situation of being in front of a judge, I highly doubt they will be doing in-depth checks on loan applicants once approved and paid unless you default, as long as you were making payments I can't see it being an issue, you are one out of millions who have been paid, probability is in your favor and I wouldn't think this would be classed as fraud due to the grey area in the application eligibility requirements.

I will seek advice and or speak to my bank and ask their opinion on Monday as I do really need the finance, I'm regretting not combining the total turn over and getting the full 50k, as I expected I could get 25k for each business and right now I only have 25k which is not enough to tie me over long term.