Smart Parting- No initial letter and escalation

ruddin1

I am the keeper of the vehicle. The driver of the car parked in a private residential space. The first 30 minutes were free and then you're supposed to pay. The driver overstayed by 11 minutes, and he did this twice on the same day. I recently got a letter from Debt recovery plus stating that because I did not pay the initial parking charge notice I am being charged £170. Bizarrely enough I got two letters from them the same day for the two different parking incidents. However, I never got a letter from Smart parking themselves to say that I had been in violation of parking rules. Being worried and naive, I ended up calling debt recovery plus first to explain the situation but they would not listen and said that they will only discuss about payment. I refused and said it was unfair and told them to get me touch with Smart parking or they could tell them. Obviously they said they won't do that and also said that i can't appeal anymore as my time for that had expired. I can't remember if I implied I was driving the car. I managed to find Smart parking via their website and appeal initially to state I never got a letter and so the excess fine wasn't fair. Because I got no automated response for the acknowledgement of what I wrote, I found a website called resolver which would help me get in touch with smart parking and wrote a similar message. This was basically I did not get a letter from them initially and to provide proof by showing me a letter of the fine they were meant to show me. They replied more promptly and provided letters for the two parking incidents. Both incidents occurred on 19.02.2020 and the letter they allegedly sent was dated 10.03.2020 for both of them. They did offer to reduce the fines for both of them from £170 to £100. When I initially saw that, at the time being stressed out, I acknowledged that I was the driver even though I wasn't actually driver (I have this my car, my responsibility kinda mentally) and wanted to further reduce the fine due to my financial difficulties. However, they said they could not do this due to passing the 28 day rule or something. Later on I thought I found a technical loophole which suggested that they actually had to send a PCN within 14 days of the incident of occurring. I further added this to the appeal. They rejected my appeal on the following basis:

We would like to clarify that as per the BPA code of practice January 2018, paragraph 22.7 "To give drivers early notice of your claim, you should apply to the DVLA for the keeper details promptly. Usually this would be applying to the DVLA no more than 28 days after the unauthorised parking event." And 22.9, "you must post the parking charge notice to the keeper as soon as possible. Your target is to send the parking charge notice to the keeper of the vehicle no more than 14 days after receiving the keeper data from the DVLA.". We can confirm that the contravention occurred on 19/02/2020, the registered keepers details were provided to us on 09/03/2020, and the PCN was promptly issued. Therefore, this is within the time frames as stipulated by the BPA.
We can confirm that the signs in the car park clearly advise that it is an Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) system monitored car park. Every accessible entry and exit point to this car park is managed by either an entry or exit camera which takes an infrared image of the vehicle registration as it passes by therefore we do not hold images of your vehicle being parked.
Please be aware that the parking restrictions are in place for all motorists. As stated on the signage, there is a maximum stay period of 30 minutes. Your vehicle remained on site for 41 minutes, which resulted in a 11 minutes overstay. As your vehicle remained on site in excess of the maximum stay time, the Terms and Conditions were breached and subsequently the PCN was correctly issued.
The Terms and Conditions of the car park are clearly advertised around the site and must be adhered to by all drivers.
As per the British Parking Association Code of Practice (paragraph 23.7), all appeals must be submitted to us within 28 days of the Notice to Keeper being issued.  Due to the length of time your PCN has been open, we have now referred this to a debt recovery company (Debt Recovery Plus) who are handling the matter on our behalf.  Please contact them directly if you wish to discuss this further.

Can anyone advise me what to do? Are they right about what they said above or is that some technical BS, and the whole 14 day role applies that I found?

Any help would be very appreciated

Redx

Please put some paragraphs in so we can read it , thank you

ruddin1

I am the keeper of the vehicle. The driver of the car parked in a private residential space. The first 30 minutes were free and then you're supposed to pay. The driver overstayed by 11 minutes, and he did this twice on the same day. I recently got a letter from Debt recovery plus stating that because I did not pay the initial parking charge notice I am being charged £170. Bizarrely enough I got two letters from them the same day for the two different parking incidents. However, I never got a letter from Smart parking themselves to say that I had been in violation of parking rules. Being worried and naive, I ended up calling debt recovery plus first to explain the situation but they would not listen and said that they will only discuss about payment. I refused and said it was unfair and told them to get me touch with Smart parking or they could tell them. Obviously they said they won't do that and also said that i can't appeal anymore as my time for that had expired. I can't remember if I implied I was driving the car.

I managed to find Smart parking via their website and appeal initially to state I never got a letter and so the excess fine wasn't fair. Because I got no automated response for the acknowledgement of what I wrote, I found a website called resolver which would help me get in touch with smart parking and wrote a similar message. This was basically I did not get a letter from them initially and to provide proof by showing me a letter of the fine they were meant to show me. They replied more promptly and provided letters for the two parking incidents. Both incidents occurred on 19.02.2020 and the letter they allegedly sent was dated 10.03.2020 for both of them. They did offer to reduce the fines for both of them from £170 to £100. When I initially saw that, at the time being stressed out, I acknowledged that I was the driver even though I wasn't actually driver (I have this my car, my responsibility kinda mentally) and wanted to further reduce the fine due to my financial difficulties. However, they said they could not do this due to passing the 28 day rule or something. Later on I thought I found a technical loophole which suggested that they actually had to send a PCN within 14 days of the incident of occurring. I further added this to the appeal. They rejected my appeal on the following basis:

We would like to clarify that as per the BPA code of practice January 2018, paragraph 22.7 "To give drivers early notice of your claim, you should apply to the DVLA for the keeper details promptly. Usually this would be applying to the DVLA no more than 28 days after the unauthorised parking event." And 22.9, "you must post the parking charge notice to the keeper as soon as possible. Your target is to send the parking charge notice to the keeper of the vehicle no more than 14 days after receiving the keeper data from the DVLA.". We can confirm that the contravention occurred on 19/02/2020, the registered keepers details were provided to us on 09/03/2020, and the PCN was promptly issued. Therefore, this is within the time frames as stipulated by the BPA.

We can confirm that the signs in the car park clearly advise that it is an Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) system monitored car park. Every accessible entry and exit point to this car park is managed by either an entry or exit camera which takes an infrared image of the vehicle registration as it passes by therefore we do not hold images of your vehicle being parked.

Please be aware that the parking restrictions are in place for all motorists. As stated on the signage, there is a maximum stay period of 30 minutes. Your vehicle remained on site for 41 minutes, which resulted in a 11 minutes overstay. As your vehicle remained on site in excess of the maximum stay time, the Terms and Conditions were breached and subsequently the PCN was correctly issued.
The Terms and Conditions of the car park are clearly advertised around the site and must be adhered to by all drivers.
As per the British Parking Association Code of Practice (paragraph 23.7), all appeals must be submitted to us within 28 days of the Notice to Keeper being issued.  Due to the length of time your PCN has been open, we have now referred this to a debt recovery company (Debt Recovery Plus) who are handling the matter on our behalf.  Please contact them directly if you wish to discuss this further.

Can anyone advise me what to do? Are they right about what they said above or is that some technical BS, and the whole 14 day role applies that I found?

Any help would be very appreciated

Coupon-mad

You know you could have seen Smart off with one email (our forum appeal template) as long as you never said who was driving?  You know now.   Sounds like you already blabbed about the driver though.  The 14 days only applies to keepers, not to appellants who have appealed rashly, ticked 'driver' on the dropdown menu and said ''Here's what happened...I parked/I did this...it's unfair...''
Yes they can issue a PCN after 14 days.  It just can't hold a registered keeper liable, which is why you NEVER EVER say who was driving to Smart Parking...

Please read the NEWBIES thread post #2 for pre-court and court stage.  We win 99% of the time and Smart don't try very many.  That appeal email we offer in post #1 would have been soooo much easier for you though, so remember that next time.

Also read post #4 of the NEWBIES sticky thread, begging people NOT (please never) to post about debt collection letters.

What happened when you complained to the landowners/retailer though?  Please don't reply to that with a question asking if it's too late.  We then know people haven't read the sticky thread.

ruddin1

The signs said that smart parking operated on behalf of the owners but it did not say who the owner was. Just that it was private. The area is private residential parking. So I didn't complain to the landowner as I didn't have their details or how to get them

Coupon-mad

Smart Parking don't operate in residential car parks though.  Where is this  - Google Street View link please.

ruddin1

E14 9EU. Between pepper street and Alexia Square. It was parked within Alexia square

Umkomaas

I'm not great at a GSV virtual walkabouts, but just 'strolling' around between Pepper Street and Alexia Square, the only PPC signs I can see are NCP and FlashPark. But I could have easily missed others, but I agree with CM, I don't associate Smart Parking with residential sites. 

D_P_Dance

Read what Pete Wishart MP said recently in the House of commons about Smart Parking.

"I am sick and tired of receiving emails from people complaining about the behaviour of parking companies, telling me that they will never again visit Perth city centre because of the negative experience they had when they had the misfortune to end up in a car park operated by one of these companies. I have received more complaints about one car park in the city of Perth than about any other issue. That car park is operated by the lone ranger of the parking cowboys: the hated and appalling Smart Parking—I see that many other Members are unfortunate enough to have Smart Parking operating in their constituencies. It has reached the stage where one member of my staff now spends a good part of each day just helping my constituents and visitors to my constituency to navigate the appeals process.
…
The BPA does not have the ability to regulate these companies and has shown no sign whatsoever that it is trying to get on top of some of the sharper practices. The BPA gives a veneer of legitimacy to some of the more outlandish rogue operators by including them in their membership, allowing them to continue to operate. The Bill will oblige operators such as Smart Parking to amend their practices.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully, when life gets back to normal, it will become impossible for those scammers who are left to continue their vile trade, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

ruddin1

Also, I was never given a POPLA code as apparently i missed the 28 day deadline for appeal in order for me to get one. Does that mean I cannot use POPLA?

Would really appreciate any advice for what my next move should be?

Coupon-mad

Coupon-mad said:

You know you could have seen Smart off with one email (our forum appeal template) as long as you never said who was driving?  You know now.   Sounds like you already blabbed about the driver though.  The 14 days only applies to keepers, not to appellants who have appealed rashly, ticked 'driver' on the dropdown menu and said ''Here's what happened...I parked/I did this...it's unfair...''
Yes they can issue a PCN after 14 days.  It just can't hold a registered keeper liable, which is why you NEVER EVER say who was driving to Smart Parking...

Please read the NEWBIES thread post #2 for pre-court and court stage.  We win 99% of the time and Smart don't try very many.  That appeal email we offer in post #1 would have been soooo much easier for you though, so remember that next time.

Also read post #4 of the NEWBIES sticky thread, begging people NOT (please never) to post about debt collection letters.

What happened when you complained to the landowners/retailer though?  Please don't reply to that with a question asking if it's too late.  We then know people haven't read the sticky thread.

Apart from the above?