Time limit for PPC to send PCN to lease company

alpha64327

Hi guys. I appreciate all the help offered in the newbies thread and templates provided. There's one thing I'm a bit confused about and would really appreciate clearing up before sending my first appeal.

I've read through the newbies thread and have what I think is a suitable template with thanks to Coupon-mad and Edna_Basher regarding the PPC not including the necessary documents with their PCN.

PCN was issued by PPC on 14th April 2020 for a breach on 26th February 2020 (car park overstay of ~15 mins). PCN was forwarded from leasing company on 24th April 2020 and received by myself, the registered keeper, a few days later. I have now received the PCN from the PPC directly with an adjusted issue date.

As mentioned, I'm ready to send my appeal since the PPC has not provided required documents. However I'm wondering about the ~58 days between the breach of the car park terms and the PPC being delivered to the leasing company. Section 9.5 of POFA states "The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended."

Is the above relevant and could/should I include this in my appeal? Any advice would be much appreciated.

D_P_Dance

1. Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.
   
   Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.
   
   Hopefully, when life gets back to normal, it will become impossible for those scammers who are left to continue their vile trade, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.
   
   http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted
   
   Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Fruitcake

The PoFA 2012 defines when the NTK must be given (received) by the scammers, so have a look at the relevant hire/lease sections of the PoFA. Paras 13 and 14 certainly apply.

The initial NTK to the keeper (lease company) was too late for keeper liability to apply as it should have arrived by day 14, the date of the alleged event being day zero. Since the original NTK was non PoFA compliant then the NTH must also be too late for keeper (hirer/lessee) liability to apply.

If you have the original NTK sent to the hire/lease company, compare the wording against the Parking Lie "Golden Ticket" example in the NEWBIES. If the PoFA is not mentioned in the original NTK then the scammers are not trying to transfer liability to the keeper via the PoFA. 
If they are not trying to transfer liability to the registered keeper in the first instance then they cannot subsequently transfer it to the day to day keeper (hirer/lessee).

Liability in that case stays with the driver, so it is imperative that you do not reveal their identity at any point.

Go with the relevant edna basher template and add a few lines about the initial NTK to the hire company being non PoFA compliant so the NTH must therefore be non PoFA compliant and they should cancel now to save themselves money.

What happened when you complained to the landowner?

Have you complained to your MP yet about this unregulated scam?

Le_Kirk

alpha64327 said:

PCN was issued by PPC on 14th April 2020 for a breach on 26th February 2020 (car park overstay of ~15 mins). PCN was forwarded from leasing company on 24th April 2020 and received by myself, the registered keeper, a few days later. I have now received the PCN from the PPC directly with an adjusted issue date.

Are you the registered keeper or are you the day-to-day keeper?

Umkomaas

However I'm wondering about the ~58 days between the breach of the car park terms and the PPC being delivered to the leasing company. Section 9.5 of POFA states "The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended."

Depends on whether it was a windscreen ticket (56 days and para 8 of PoFA) or ANPR camera capture, Notice through the post (14 days and para 9). 

MistyZ

Le_Kirk said:

Are you the registered keeper or are you the day-to-day keeper?

As above .... if you're the hirer that makes you the day-to-day keeper.  The Lease Co. would be the Registered Keeper.  

alpha64327

Fruitcake said:

The PoFA 2012 defines when the NTK must be given (received) by the scammers, so have a look at the relevant hire/lease sections of the PoFA. Paras 13 and 14 certainly apply.

The initial NTK to the keeper (lease company) was too late for keeper liability to apply as it should have arrived by day 14, the date of the alleged event being day zero. Since the original NTK was non PoFA compliant then the NTH must also be too late for keeper (hirer/lessee) liability to apply.

If you have the original NTK sent to the hire/lease company, compare the wording against the Parking Lie "Golden Ticket" example in the NEWBIES. If the PoFA is not mentioned in the original NTK then the scammers are not trying to transfer liability to the keeper via the PoFA. 
If they are not trying to transfer liability to the registered keeper in the first instance then they cannot subsequently transfer it to the day to day keeper (hirer/lessee).

Liability in that case stays with the driver, so it is imperative that you do not reveal their identity at any point.

Go with the relevant edna basher template and add a few lines about the initial NTK to the hire company being non PoFA compliant so the NTH must therefore be non PoFA compliant and they should cancel now to save themselves money.

What happened when you complained to the landowner?

Have you complained to your MP yet about this unregulated scam?

Thanks for taking the time to explain this. That makes perfect sense. I'll get on it right away.

It's a supermarket car park. I wrote a letter to the store manager and posted it a week ago but have had no reply. I couldn't find an email address and cannot visit the store because it is not a local store and COVID-19 policies would forbid me to make a 30 mile trip to complain to a manager.

I'm yet to complain to my MP.

Le_Kirk said:

alpha64327 said:

PCN was issued by PPC on 14th April 2020 for a breach on 26th February 2020 (car park overstay of ~15 mins). PCN was forwarded from leasing company on 24th April 2020 and received by myself, the registered keeper, a few days later. I have now received the PCN from the PPC directly with an adjusted issue date.

Are you the registered keeper or are you the day-to-day keeper?

My bad. I am the day-to-day keeper.

Umkomaas said:

However I'm wondering about the ~58 days between the breach of the car park terms and the PPC being delivered to the leasing company. Section 9.5 of POFA states "The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended."

Depends on whether it was a windscreen ticket (56 days and para 8 of PoFA) or ANPR camera capture, Notice through the post (14 days and para 9). 

It's an ANPR issued ticket.

Ralph-y

"It's a supermarket car park. I wrote a letter to the store manager and posted it a week ago but have had no reply. I couldn't find an email address and cannot visit the store because it is not a local store"

which supermarket?   is it a stand-alone, or on a retail park? 

If you cannot find an email for the store try the head office CEO

writing a letter is the normal way forwards but the owner complaint is the very first appeal that should be done , time is important.

Ralph

Redx

I would be complaining by email to the CEO asap (which supermarket ? Give us more info , stop being secretive about parking company name , location and store name )

Letters can currently take many days or weeks to arrive at their destination , plus there may be nobody opening them

Umkomaas

It's an ANPR issued ticket.

PCN was issued by PPC on 14th April 2020 for a breach on 26th February 2020 (car park overstay of ~15 mins). PCN was forwarded from leasing company on 24th April 2020 and received by myself, the registered keeper, a few days later. I have now received the PCN from the PPC directly with an adjusted issue date.

So it's 14 days to the leasing company. You haven't told us which parking company. In the context of a hire/lease/company vehicle, the name of the PPC is very important in determining your way forward. 

alpha64327

Umkomaas said:

It's an ANPR issued ticket.

PCN was issued by PPC on 14th April 2020 for a breach on 26th February 2020 (car park overstay of ~15 mins). PCN was forwarded from leasing company on 24th April 2020 and received by myself, the registered keeper, a few days later. I have now received the PCN from the PPC directly with an adjusted issue date.

So it's 14 days to the leasing company. You haven't told us which parking company. In the context of a hire/lease/company vehicle, the name of the PPC is very important in determining your way forward. 

The PPC is Horizon Parking. There is no wording regarding POFA 2012 anywhere on the front or back of the PCN.