Partner staying while in lockdown and Universal Credit rules

dvds2000

tboo said:

     Eh, there is no such rule.

     You can be still classed as a couple even if you do not reside together

     Why are you calling her BF a partner in the heading?

Fair enough on the 4 night rule, doing a little checking thats a popular misconception and I was wrong about that, doesn't change the question though.

Why would I not call him her partner, they are BF/GF?

sheramber

You asked what  people think and they have told you.
But it doesn't matter what they think because all that matters is what   job centre compliance decide.

sammyjammy

Are you sure the call was genuine?  It sounds very strange to me, nobody is visiting anyone in DWP at the moment and I'm not sure where they would pick this up from, if it was a fraud referral from someone she knows they don't make phone calls like that after a few days and it seems unlikely it was picked up from the tax credits claim, they probably didn't even make a note and all the info wouldn't transfer to UC anyway.  Hope it gets sorted.

dvds2000

sheramber said:

You asked what  people think and they have told you.
But it doesn't matter what they think because all that matters is what   job centre compliance decide.

No they haven't, the post has been pulled apart by judgemental members. Saying he could have gone home in March, maybe, but unless he has a time machine that doesn't do anything now. Saying he has been there 7 weeks so he is living with her, when I point out if they were on a cruise they wouldn't be living on the ship, no reply. Saying she lied to the DWP when she didn't. Saying the story keeps changing, when it is exactly the same as it was when it was posted. This forum used to be one where people would help, how it seems to have changed over the years.
As I've already pointed out, they would be better off claiming as a couple, so there is no reason not to if they were living together. Unless people think there is some sort of reverse fraud happening, where they think, oooo lets cheat the DWP by claiming less than we are entitled to.

tomtom256

Maybe the story didn't change in your eyes, but you started adding extra to it i.e. lives with his father, became he owns his house and pays council tax and his father lives there. He comes most weekends changed to He also doesn't come up every weekend.

How do you think people will react to this, the story changes when new advice is provided or futher questions are asked.

I have 12 years experience as a DWP fraud investigator, I have heard all the excuses and they change just like this, when people are pressed about the facts or challenged on the story they have told, trying to jusitfy what has been done in repsect of their benefit claim.

What is stopping him from going home now? If he has been isolating, he offers no risk to his actual household and the problem would then be solved for the DWP. He could also offer a tenancy agreement or a copy of a mortgage statement f he owns the property and a copy of his council tax bill, proving he has his own property he is paying for.

Nannytone

11 if they were on a 7 week cruise it would be a holiday as neither of them would be in their home. Instead he is living in a home  with your daughter for which she is claiming benefit.
They wouldn't be better off claiming as a couple as as he has an asset in the home he owns that would prevent him from being eligible for universal credit.
This in turn would also stop your daughter from claiming universal credit.

sheramber

Saying he could have gone home in March,
Saying he has been there 7 weeks so he is living with her, 
Saying she lied to the DWP
Saying the story keeps changing,
These are all what people think
if you and sh are convinced that she is right and DWP  are wrong  why are you asking on here?

dvds2000

tomtom256 said:

Maybe the story didn't change in your eyes, but you started adding extra to it i.e. lives with his father, became he owns his house and pays council tax and his father lives there. He comes most weekends changed to He also doesn't come up every weekend.

How do you think people will react to this, the story changes when new advice is provided or futher questions are asked.

I have 12 years experience as a DWP fraud investigator, I have heard all the excuses and they change just like this, when people are pressed about the facts or challenged on the story they have told, trying to jusitfy what has been done in repsect of their benefit claim.

What is stopping him from going home now? If he has been isolating, he offers no risk to his actual household and the problem would then be solved for the DWP. He could also offer a tenancy agreement or a copy of a mortgage statement f he owns the property and a copy of his council tax bill, proving he has his own property he is paying for.

Thank you, see thats the type of advice and comment I was hoping for. I'm not blind, I can see what it could look like to the DWP.
My story didn't change, I didn't put every single detail into the post, I put what I thought was important, he does live with his Dad, I didn't think it important to put the exact situation, it was just to show that he has a home elsewhere. He comes to see her most weekends, I stand by that, it hasn't changed. Most weekends isn't all weekends. I said he comes up 3-4 weekends in a row then might miss one, how is that not the same as he comes up most weekends? 
To clarify your points, he owns his own home. He claims no benefits. He pays council tax. His father lives with him (and yes I'm aware I put it as he lives with his father in the OP, I didn't think it made a difference which way round I put it, in hindsight I can see why you would think it was the other way round though, that he lived in his fathers house, and thats my bad). He comes up 3-4 weekends in a row usually, sometimes one night, sometimes two. I'm fairly sure the most he has stopped was 2 nights in a row in the past 9 months he's been coming up. I am not 100% sure on that as I haven't quizzed her to any great extent, and he can prove that by way of train tickets, presumably he could get a copy of his work hours to prove he wasn't there the rest of the time.

He has been told tonight he can start back at work Friday so is going home tomorrow teatime. He can certainly show the DWP a council tax bill, mortgage statement, bank statements showing his address and the mortgage payment being made as he said earlier he would be happy to do that. 

My daughter is honest, she won't lie to the DWP if/when they come out. She will tell them he was there, how long for and why. I'm worried that him going home the day after they ring her will cause problems, as clearly thats going to look like he's ran away before they come out! 

Thank you again for your response.

dvds2000

Nannytone said:

11 if they were on a 7 week cruise it would be a holiday as neither of them would be in their home. Instead he is living in a home  with your daughter for which she is claiming benefit.
They wouldn't be better off claiming as a couple as as he has an asset in the home he owns that would prevent him from being eligible for universal credit.
This in turn would also stop your daughter from claiming universal credit.

Are you sure about that? He bought it around 2 years ago. Property prices have fell since then, I very much doubt there is any equity in it at the moment. There is also a relative living in it over Pension Credit age. Unless things have changed recently, it would be disregarded for any means tested benefit.

John_

dvds2000 said:

wilfred30 said:

Why did she lie to the JobCentrePlus Compliance Officer?  Of course he's living with her and has been for the last 7 weeks.  Why didn't she just explain the situation to them as she did to Tax Credits?  If she had, this problem probably wouldn't have arisen.

Also, there wasn't really any reason why he couldn't go home on the morning of Tuesday, 24 March after the announcement on the 23rd.  Did he and your daughter really think that anyone in the country who was not at their own home when the lockdown was announced had to stay wherever they were indefinitely?

She didn't lie, he isn't living there, he has been staying there. If you go on a cruise for 6 weeks, does that mean you are living on the ship and it's your home? No, of course not. The problem had already arisen or the compliance officer wouldn't have rang.

I don't know what they thought, I know there were trains cancelled at the time, and that he wasn't over happy about staying as his Dad can't go out and he wanted to be there to help him, so I don't think it was deliberate, more a misunderstanding of what they were allowed to do.

All the replies seem to be missing the point that she would actually be better off claiming together, so there was no fraudulent intent. He isn't earning anything, he doesn't have savings over £6000 and doesn't claim any benefits, there is no financial incentive to lie about him not living there.

Oh come on. Do you really think that this silly piece of semantics changes the reality of the situation? He’s been there for weeks, they are a couple, and presumably are sharing a bed. That’s living together. She ought to have said as much, and trying to argue that they have no right to visit is hardly going to stop,the truth coming out.

People using this crisis to scam the system is abhorrent.