Partner staying while in lockdown and Universal Credit rules

dvds2000

Hey all, would like a bit of advice if possible.

My daughter lives with her daughter (7) by themselves. Before this she was working 16 hours, and claiming WTC, CTC and HB. 

Her BF lives and works (in construction) 200 miles away. He comes up most weekends, and stays one or two nights depending on what work he has. It's usually a Friday night, a Friday and Saturday night or a Sunday and Monday night. He lives with his father, who is in the vulnerable groups and has had to self isolate.

He was staying the Sunday and Monday night when the lockdown was announced, and couldn't go home because of the ban on non essential travel, also, any work they had lined up was also cancelled at that point, so couldn't claim he was travelling to work.

After he had been there a week she rang tax credits and told them, and they said as long as it was temporary while the pandemic was ongoing it wasn't classed as a change in circumstances, and just to ring back if it was decided he would move in properly.

3 weeks ago she had to finish work, due to a long term health condition, so ended up claiming UC. She put on the form she was single with her daughter, which is true as she isn't living with her BF, and didn't think anything of it due to what tax credits had said, presuming it would be the same for all benefits.

This morning she got a phone call from JobCentrePlus compliance stating they had information someone was living with her. She told them she didn't and they said they might send someone out within a week to check the house. Not sure how that fits in with not allowing anyone to visit if they don't live with you, but never mind, she isn't bothered as she says she isn't doing anything wrong, and they are welcome to come out.

I'm not so sure. What do people think, he's been staying 7 nights a week since the 22nd March now, I know usually if someone stops 4 nights a week its classed as them living there for benefit purposes, but this is obviously not normal times.

On the plus side, he has train tickets going back about 9 months, showing he comes up on the train, then goes back 1 or 2 days later. He has the train ticket used to come up on the 22nd March, which is a return, showing he wasn't coming up to live with her, or why buy a return. He came up with the clothes he was wearing, and an extra pair of jeans, t-shirt and underwear. He has had to buy clothes while he's been here as all his are at his home, and he obviously can't get them. He can prove he has bought clothes, and if they come, can show them all the clothes he has, along with the invoices which will tally up to him having came with enough clothes for a couple of days. He also has text messages on his phone from his employer saying theres no work at present, and him saying in reply just to let him know a couple of days in advance when they restart as he's 200 miles away but will come straight home as soon as he can start, again, I think that shows he wasn't moving in and intends going home as soon as he can.

What do people think should be done here? He is living off his savings at the moment (under £6k), and I think the worst that will happen is that she is told to claim as a couple and as the claim isn't even a full 3 weeks old yet, it shouldn't affect them much (in fact it will probably increase the entitlement), but after the recent changes, he has been told he is likely to be back at work either Friday of this week (depending if the employer can get the materials) or by Wednesday next week at the latest as thats a different job where they already have everything on site, so will be a bit of a carry on, claiming as a couple for 3 weeks than changing back to single. I also think it will look very suspicious (if he starts work Friday) that he goes home tomorrow, the day after a compliance telephone call, even though it is 100% legitimate.

Sorry for the long post but I tried to anticipate questions in advance

wilfred30

Why did she lie to the JobCentrePlus Compliance Officer?  Of course he's living with her and has been for the last 7 weeks.  Why didn't she just explain the situation to them as she did to Tax Credits?  If she had, this problem probably wouldn't have arisen.

Also, there wasn't really any reason why he couldn't go home on the morning of Tuesday, 24 March after the announcement on the 23rd.  Did he and your daughter really think that anyone in the country who was not at their own home when the lockdown was announced had to stay wherever they were indefinitely?

Comms69

the was no ban on non-essential travel as such. Travelling home is clearly essential in any case.

Nannytone

You say the DWP phoned and said someone might come to visit, and then pointed out that you're not allowed into a house unless you live there.
In that case if the boyfriend is in the house then that must mean he lives there

poppy12345

I don't understand why she decided to lie to DWP in the first place? Yes, there was a lockdown but he could have returned home.

dvds2000

wilfred30 said:

Why did she lie to the JobCentrePlus Compliance Officer?  Of course he's living with her and has been for the last 7 weeks.  Why didn't she just explain the situation to them as she did to Tax Credits?  If she had, this problem probably wouldn't have arisen.

Also, there wasn't really any reason why he couldn't go home on the morning of Tuesday, 24 March after the announcement on the 23rd.  Did he and your daughter really think that anyone in the country who was not at their own home when the lockdown was announced had to stay wherever they were indefinitely?

She didn't lie, he isn't living there, he has been staying there. If you go on a cruise for 6 weeks, does that mean you are living on the ship and it's your home? No, of course not. The problem had already arisen or the compliance officer wouldn't have rang.

I don't know what they thought, I know there were trains cancelled at the time, and that he wasn't over happy about staying as his Dad can't go out and he wanted to be there to help him, so I don't think it was deliberate, more a misunderstanding of what they were allowed to do.

All the replies seem to be missing the point that she would actually be better off claiming together, so there was no fraudulent intent. He isn't earning anything, he doesn't have savings over £6000 and doesn't claim any benefits, there is no financial incentive to lie about him not living there.

tomtom256

But you could argue he does live there as he comes every weekend after working away.

A little bit like a long distance lorry driver for instance.

If she had nothing to hide and it was all inocent, why not say my boyfriend is here currently because of lockdown etc and tell the truth.

dvds2000

tomtom256 said:

But you could argue he does live there as he comes every weekend after working away.

A little bit like a long distance lorry driver for instance.

If she had nothing to hide and it was all inocent, why not say my boyfriend is here currently because of lockdown etc and tell the truth.

I don't think that could be argued. He has his own house, that he pays council tax on and stays at 5-6 nights a week. He also doesn't come up every weekend, he does most, usually being 3 or 4 in a row, then he might have jobs on that require weekend work or just stays down there, so its probably an average of 6 nights max per 4 week period.

I honestly think she said what she did as it's what she believes is true. It is actually true, he doesn't live there. I asked her the same question, and that was her response. I asked what she would do if they came out and she said, let her in and show her round, he will be there if he hasn't gone back to work, explain why he's there and show her the tickets, texts etc. 

I am fully aware of how it looks from the outside, I questioned her and tried to explain the DWP might not look at it the way she does, and her response was, why not, it's the truth. As I say, she would be better off claiming with him so its not as if she is cheating them out of any money, even if he is classed as living there.

The post was more to find if there was any official guidance on it during the current crisis. There must be other people in similar situations, maybe a single parent key worker with a child, and the child goes to stay with the father for a few weeks as the key worker is a high risk of catching it, what would happen then? Surely the father wouldn't have to switch round child benefit, tax credits etc for a month, then the mother have to switch back when the child goes home?

tomtom256

dvds2000 said:

tomtom256 said:

But you could argue he does live there as he comes every weekend after working away.

A little bit like a long distance lorry driver for instance.

If she had nothing to hide and it was all inocent, why not say my boyfriend is here currently because of lockdown etc and tell the truth.

I don't think that could be argued. He has his own house, that he pays council tax on and stays at 5-6 nights a week. He also doesn't come up every weekend, he does most, usually being 3 or 4 in a row, then he might have jobs on that require weekend work or just stays down there, so its probably an average of 6 nights max per 4 week period.

I honestly think she said what she did as it's what she believes is true. It is actually true, he doesn't live there. I asked her the same question, and that was her response. I asked what she would do if they came out and she said, let her in and show her round, he will be there if he hasn't gone back to work, explain why he's there and show her the tickets, texts etc. 

I am fully aware of how it looks from the outside, I questioned her and tried to explain the DWP might not look at it the way she does, and her response was, why not, it's the truth. As I say, she would be better off claiming with him so its not as if she is cheating them out of any money, even if he is classed as living there.

The post was more to find if there was any official guidance on it during the current crisis. There must be other people in similar situations, maybe a single parent key worker with a child, and the child goes to stay with the father for a few weeks as the key worker is a high risk of catching it, what would happen then? Surely the father wouldn't have to switch round child benefit, tax credits etc for a month, then the mother have to switch back when the child goes home?

But you said he lives with his father, now he has his own home and pays council tax. The story keeps changing. There wouldn't be any official guidance on this, as this pandemic has never been planned for.

Guidance is being made up and changes daily.

tboo

dvds2000 said:

Hey all, would like a bit of advice if possible.

My daughter lives with her daughter (7) by themselves. Before this she was working 16 hours, and claiming WTC, CTC and HB. 

Her BF lives and works (in construction) 200 miles away. He comes up most weekends, and stays one or two nights depending on what work he has. It's usually a Friday night, a Friday and Saturday night or a Sunday and Monday night. He lives with his father, who is in the vulnerable groups and has had to self isolate.

He was staying the Sunday and Monday night when the lockdown was announced, and couldn't go home because of the ban on non essential travel, also, any work they had lined up was also cancelled at that point, so couldn't claim he was travelling to work.

After he had been there a week she rang tax credits and told them, and they said as long as it was temporary while the pandemic was ongoing it wasn't classed as a change in circumstances, and just to ring back if it was decided he would move in properly.

3 weeks ago she had to finish work, due to a long term health condition, so ended up claiming UC. She put on the form she was single with her daughter, which is true as she isn't living with her BF, and didn't think anything of it due to what tax credits had said, presuming it would be the same for all benefits.

This morning she got a phone call from JobCentrePlus compliance stating they had information someone was living with her. She told them she didn't and they said they might send someone out within a week to check the house. Not sure how that fits in with not allowing anyone to visit if they don't live with you, but never mind, she isn't bothered as she says she isn't doing anything wrong, and they are welcome to come out.

I'm not so sure. What do people think, he's been staying 7 nights a week since the 22nd March now, I know usually if someone stops 4 nights a week its classed as them living there for benefit purposes, but this is obviously not normal times.

On the plus side, he has train tickets going back about 9 months, showing he comes up on the train, then goes back 1 or 2 days later. He has the train ticket used to come up on the 22nd March, which is a return, showing he wasn't coming up to live with her, or why buy a return. He came up with the clothes he was wearing, and an extra pair of jeans, t-shirt and underwear. He has had to buy clothes while he's been here as all his are at his home, and he obviously can't get them. He can prove he has bought clothes, and if they come, can show them all the clothes he has, along with the invoices which will tally up to him having came with enough clothes for a couple of days. He also has text messages on his phone from his employer saying theres no work at present, and him saying in reply just to let him know a couple of days in advance when they restart as he's 200 miles away but will come straight home as soon as he can start, again, I think that shows he wasn't moving in and intends going home as soon as he can.

What do people think should be done here? He is living off his savings at the moment (under £6k), and I think the worst that will happen is that she is told to claim as a couple and as the claim isn't even a full 3 weeks old yet, it shouldn't affect them much (in fact it will probably increase the entitlement), but after the recent changes, he has been told he is likely to be back at work either Friday of this week (depending if the employer can get the materials) or by Wednesday next week at the latest as thats a different job where they already have everything on site, so will be a bit of a carry on, claiming as a couple for 3 weeks than changing back to single. I also think it will look very suspicious (if he starts work Friday) that he goes home tomorrow, the day after a compliance telephone call, even though it is 100% legitimate.

Sorry for the long post but I tried to anticipate questions in advance

     Eh, there is no such rule.

     You can be still classed as a couple even if you do not reside together

dvds2000 said:

She didn't lie, he isn't living there, he has been staying there. If you go on a cruise for 6 weeks, does that mean you are living on the ship and it's your home? No, of course not. The problem had already arisen or the compliance officer wouldn't have rang.

I don't know what they thought, I know there were trains cancelled at the time, and that he wasn't over happy about staying as his Dad can't go out and he wanted to be there to help him, so I don't think it was deliberate, more a misunderstanding of what they were allowed to do.

All the replies seem to be missing the point that she would actually be better off claiming together, so there was no fraudulent intent. He isn't earning anything, he doesn't have savings over £6000 and doesn't claim any benefits, there is no financial incentive to lie about him not living there.

dvds2000 said:

I don't think that could be argued. He has his own house, that he pays council tax on and stays at 5-6 nights a week. He also doesn't come up every weekend, he does most, usually being 3 or 4 in a row, then he might have jobs on that require weekend work or just stays down there, so its probably an average of 6 nights max per 4 week period.

I honestly think she said what she did as it's what she believes is true. It is actually true, he doesn't live there. I asked her the same question, and that was her response. I asked what she would do if they came out and she said, let her in and show her round, he will be there if he hasn't gone back to work, explain why he's there and show her the tickets, texts etc. 

I am fully aware of how it looks from the outside, I questioned her and tried to explain the DWP might not look at it the way she does, and her response was, why not, it's the truth. As I say, she would be better off claiming with him so its not as if she is cheating them out of any money, even if he is classed as living there.

The post was more to find if there was any official guidance on it during the current crisis. There must be other people in similar situations, maybe a single parent key worker with a child, and the child goes to stay with the father for a few weeks as the key worker is a high risk of catching it, what would happen then? Surely the father wouldn't have to switch round child benefit, tax credits etc for a month, then the mother have to switch back when the child goes home?

     Why are you calling her BF a partner in the heading?

dvds2000

tomtom256 said:

dvds2000 said:

tomtom256 said:

But you could argue he does live there as he comes every weekend after working away.

A little bit like a long distance lorry driver for instance.

If she had nothing to hide and it was all inocent, why not say my boyfriend is here currently because of lockdown etc and tell the truth.

I don't think that could be argued. He has his own house, that he pays council tax on and stays at 5-6 nights a week. He also doesn't come up every weekend, he does most, usually being 3 or 4 in a row, then he might have jobs on that require weekend work or just stays down there, so its probably an average of 6 nights max per 4 week period.

I honestly think she said what she did as it's what she believes is true. It is actually true, he doesn't live there. I asked her the same question, and that was her response. I asked what she would do if they came out and she said, let her in and show her round, he will be there if he hasn't gone back to work, explain why he's there and show her the tickets, texts etc. 

I am fully aware of how it looks from the outside, I questioned her and tried to explain the DWP might not look at it the way she does, and her response was, why not, it's the truth. As I say, she would be better off claiming with him so its not as if she is cheating them out of any money, even if he is classed as living there.

The post was more to find if there was any official guidance on it during the current crisis. There must be other people in similar situations, maybe a single parent key worker with a child, and the child goes to stay with the father for a few weeks as the key worker is a high risk of catching it, what would happen then? Surely the father wouldn't have to switch round child benefit, tax credits etc for a month, then the mother have to switch back when the child goes home?

But you said he lives with his father, now he has his own home and pays council tax. The story keeps changing. There wouldn't be any official guidance on this, as this pandemic has never been planned for.

Guidance is being made up and changes daily.

yes thats right. He has his own house and lives with his father, whats wrong with that? It's his house. His father lives in it too. How has the story  changed?